Stop Global Warming

Paper, Plastic, Cloth: Which is climate-friendliest?

Published May 06, 2009 @ 09:57AM PT

I'm taking a moment from the global warming blogging to feature this mini-movie, "The Bay vs The Bag."  It's been produced by a campaign to ban plastic bags in the San Francisco Bay area. This is great messaging for a great cause: I admire the creativity of the fun animation, and the balance between the amusing images and the serious message.

The "Pledge to Use Reusable Bags" started by member Peggy Van Dooren remains a perennial favorite on Change.org. Peggy sums up the issues concisely, "When these bags are discarded, they break down, and harm the environment by killing marine mammals and contaminating soil and water."

Come to think of it, this does give me the chance to bust some myths around the plastic-vs-paper bag debate, as it relates to climate change.

In a nutshell, what's in the bag matters a lot more towards stopping global warming than what the bag is made of -- around 186 times more, according to some 2007 data crunching by a blogger at The Daily Score. "This number was calculated using the concept of embodied energy," wrote Justin Brandt, "the energy used to produce, transport, and dispose of a product over its entire lifetime. For food this includes making fertilizers, processing, transportation, storage, and cooking."

Using data from the most on-point study I could find, I calculated the energy used to produce, process, transport, store, and cook four servings of two different diets: the first, a meat-based diet that included beef, potatoes, tropical fruit, and drinks such as soda; the second a vegetable-based diet composed of produce grown within the country where is was consumed and a soy-based protein source.

The first diet takes 113 MJ (megajoules) of energy to get to the table, while the second takes 24 MJ of energy. The difference between these two numbers is 89 MJ.

In contrast, it takes about 0.5 MJ, give or take, to produce and dispose of one plastic bag.

The energy saved by a family of four that chooses a vegetable-based diet for one day would be equivalent to the energy needed to produce 186 plastic bags, or drive the average U.S passenger car over 15 miles, Justin calculated. Further, it takes over 20 times more energy to produce a paper bag than a plastic one.

So, if you're standing in the checkout line, transfixed by the "paper versus plastic" question because your canvas grocery tote is hanging on a hook back at home (reusables handily beat both plastic and paper on embodied energy), and worrying about global warming in particular, your best option really is to put the beef roast back in the meat case, grab a couple bags of dried beans, and make a nice pot of vegetarian chili for dinner.

That said, here are the substantive reasons using the thermoplastic petro-sacks is a bad idea:

  • They break down so slowly in the landfill that they're essentially indestructible.
  • They're a menace to wildlife, which mistake them for food and then die of starvation, their stomachs too full of plastic bag to take in any more nourishment.
  • And they're a bane of storm water runoff systems. Hundreds of Mumbaikers were killed by flooding in 2005 because plastic bags choked the drains.

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Comments (62)

  1. M I

    It seems that, as long as plastic bags end up in landfills, they are a pretty minor environmental problem.

    As such, it seems that they are getting rather too much attention from businesses and policymakers: just another example of choosing small but trivial actions over larger meaningful ones.

    Posted by M I on 05/07/2009 @ 09:13AM PT

  2. Eric Oxford

    well, it would be nice if they all did, but they don't and never will, no matter what. accidents happen, bags get loose, people get forgetful - whatever the reason is.
    and even if they did manage to get them all in miraculously, there are toxic byproducts that leech out of plastic over its very very slow degradation process. it's basically not safe until it's broken down to the atomic level and that can take a ridiculous amount of time without burning. honestly i'm not sure how we can intelligently deal with the problem, some how reverse the process the chemical process of how plastic is made. 

    Posted by Eric Oxford on 05/09/2009 @ 12:05PM PT

  3. Julia Bondanella

    Yes, a vegetable diet would be wonderful, but what does one do who is rather violently allergic to legumes, which include soy, among many other plants?

    Posted by Julia Bondanella on 05/09/2009 @ 06:00PM PT

  4. Judith Lautner

    Julia, you don't have to eat legumes to eat a plant-based diet. It isn't necessary to worry about protein at all, for that matter.

    What it really comes down to is, if there is a will there is a way. And the way is not difficult. There is probably no food that contains a needed nutrient that can't be found in another food.

    Posted by Judith Lautner on 05/09/2009 @ 06:39PM PT

  5. Kassy Killey

    Julia, a healthy vegetarian diet that includes a diverse array of plant based food, contains all the amino acids needed for protein. Quinoa is a grain that is a complete protein by itself. Nuts are another source of protein, but as long as you eat a diverse group of grains, veggies and fruits you should be fine without beans.

    Posted by Kassy Killey on 05/10/2009 @ 10:14AM PT

  6. Reply to thread
  7. Emily Gertz

    Whether the landfill idea is arguable or no, the fact is that many, many plastic bags don't end up in the landfill.  It's likely going to be much harder to change the human behaviors that result in plastic bags clogging sewers (provably a danger to public health and safety), and killing wildlife, than it will be to prohibit them outright.

    Posted by Emily Gertz on 05/07/2009 @ 10:08AM PT

  8. Reply to thread
  9. Leonard Bloksberg

    Great research on energy content of bags, but your conclusions don't match your data and the video (while funny) is not consistent with your data either. Plastic bags burn 0.5mJ and paper burn 10.0. The biggest difference you could create with what you fill the bag with is about 80mJ. Since most of us don't work in extremes, simply choosing paper bags can double the carbon footprint of your shopping. By all means use cloth, but if shops must carry an emergency supply to provide at a cost, let it be plastic and ban the paper please.

    Posted by Leonard Bloksberg on 05/07/2009 @ 12:16PM PT

  10. Emily Gertz

    Yes, someone else has pointed this out to me as well!  
    My mistake: I was posting this a bit too quickly, and didn't look at the numbers I found as carefully as I could have.  I'm looking around for some better data.

    Posted by Emily Gertz on 05/11/2009 @ 04:29PM PT

  11. Reply to thread
  12. Leonard Bloksberg

    Great work on energy content of bags, but I think you've gont astray on energy content of foods. Turns out calculating energy content of foods is much more complex than pop culture cliches lead you to believe. Tropical foods can have lower carbon footprint because they often use less intensive ag methods and meat can often have lower carbon footprint than beans. Adding to the public hysteria over food miles only distracts from global warming with market protectionism and the meat vs. veg thing creates a division in people who should all be working together to save the planet. The only reliable rule of thum for carbon footprint is price. Now that energy is the biggest cost to bring a product to market, the cost will reflect the carbon footprint. Buy cheaper stuff, buy less stuff. It's that simple.

    Posted by Leonard Bloksberg on 05/07/2009 @ 12:22PM PT

  13. Emily Gertz

    Ag subsidies, trade treaties, and the extremely intricate and illogical interactions of politics with economics around petroleum, all undercut the argument that whatever costs least energy to produce will also cost the least.
    (Also, for the record, I find the the terms "pop culture cliches" and "public hysteria" pretty dismissive in this context.)
    Concern for food miles can be taken beyond logic, but overall it's getting people to think a lot more clearly about where and how their food is being grown, the decline of family farms, and the very real ills of overprocessed foods.
    The clearest message to take away may be that in the case of the foods we eat, carbon footprints are one part of a complex web of considerations, and how our choices affect the environment and the atmosphere.   

    Posted by Emily Gertz on 05/11/2009 @ 04:38PM PT

  14. Reply to thread
  15. Vasu Murti

    I agree plastic bags are a serious problem that needs to be addressed.  Not everyone is in a position to switch immediately to cloth bags; I think recycled paper bags might be a better route.  A similar situation exists with regards to cars.  Ten years ago, the Union of Concerned Scientists reported that although cars are the leading source of pollution, meat comes in a close second.  Not everyone is in a position to give up their car (especially here in California, where most of our metropolitan areas grew in the post World War II economic boom!).  But eating lower on the food chain is an action we can all do, for ourselves and our planet.

    Roberta Kalechofsky of Jews for Animal Rights similarly says:

    "Merely by ceasing to eat meat
     Merely by practicing restraint
     We have the power to end a painful industry

    "We do not have to bear arms to end this evil
     We do not have to contribute money
     We do not have to sit in jail or go to
     meetings or demonstrations or
     engage in acts of civil disobedience

    "Most often, the act of repairing the world,
     of healing mortal wounds,
     is left to heroes and tzaddikim (holy people)
     Saints and people of unusual discipline

    "But here is an action every mortal can
     perform--surely it is not too difficult!"

    Posted by Vasu Murti on 05/08/2009 @ 05:21PM PT

  16. Nathan Smith

    You make some great points.  The only one I disagree with is "not everyone has the power to switch immediately to cloth bags".  These bags are quite inexpensive.  I bought mine at the store for 50 cents a piece.  They don't have to be bought all at once.  Maybe one each time you visit the store.  Sure not everyone can afford this but the majority I'm sure can afford 50cents.

    Posted by Nathan Smith on 05/09/2009 @ 04:48AM PT

  17. Lisa Boudreaux

    I agree - how can someone not be in a position to switch to reusable bags? They are widely available. I don't remember when plastic bags really became a staple at grocery stores, but it was definitely within my lifetime - and I'm only in my early 40s. Let's not forget that people once knew how to carry bags to the store. They can figure it out again.

    Posted by Lisa Boudreaux on 05/18/2009 @ 02:47PM PT

  18. Reply to thread
  19. Lianda Ludwig

    The fact is: using plastic OR paper bags is unnecessary. Most people have bags at home, and they don't bring them.   Plastic NEVER biodegrades.  It photodegrades. That means exposure to the sun and light makes it hard and it cracks into smaller and smaller pieces.  
    Those pieces are ingested by animals; and because the plastic pieces are smaller it's going down the food chain. It is not digestible, and can clog animals systems and kill them. 
    The chemicals in these plastics have been shown to be endocrine disruptors.  WE are getting these chemicals (phthlates) into OUR bodies as well.  Ever wonder why people are fatter than ever?  It may have something to do with the ubiquitous use of plastics.  Try do go through a day without touching plastic.  You couldn't do it!
    If you want a place to buy organic fairtrade cotton, or hemp reusable bags, many made in the US, check out: SustainableBags.NET.  You can also get bioplastic garbage bags, and don't forget dog poop bags - instead of making dog poop mummie turds!  
    It takes such little effort, and makes such a difference to bring your own bag.  Do it for your mother (mother earth!)

    Posted by Lianda Ludwig on 05/08/2009 @ 08:33PM PT

  20. Navidad Arnett

    question: is locally raised meat just as damaging as factory farms? Has that even been studied?

    Posted by Navidad Arnett on 05/08/2009 @ 09:10PM PT

  21. Judith Lautner

    Have a look at this editorial in Audubon Magazine:
    http://www.audubonmagazine.org/features0901/viewpoint.html

    The answer is it doesn't matter how the cattle are raised. The environmental effects are still devastating.

    Posted by Judith Lautner on 05/09/2009 @ 06:38AM PT

  22. Angie Rayfield

    Raising cattle may be environmentally damaging than growing food crops (although some of that may depend on what methods you're comparing).

    But choosing locally raised meat from local small or family farms generally is going to a better environmental choice than factory-farm meat.  Small/family farms are more likely to have their cattle grazing naturally, perhaps with supplemental feed, as opposed to the feedlot production with factory farms.  And any time you buy a local products opposed to one brought in from heaven only knows where, you're decreasing the impact from transportation.

    Posted by Angie Rayfield on 05/09/2009 @ 10:24AM PT

  23. Reply to thread
  24. Craig Nazor

    I found that reusable bags are easy to get - I now have twelve, more than enough, and half of them I got for free through various marketing offers.

    I also find the reusable bags to be larger and stronger than plastic bags, and in every way better. The trick is to always keep some in your car - it is all about building up a good habit of having them when you need them.   
    The creek that runs through my local park is always FILLED with plastic trash, mostly plastic bags, after each rain. A few times I have spent hours cleaning the creek, and after the next storm, it is as if I had never done a thing. And all this plastic goes into the Gulf of Mexico, and nobody seems to care. It is truly disgusting.   
    As for not eating meat, the enormous energy savings of a vegetarian diet is scientifically very well-documented, not to mention issues like overfishing, destruction of rainforests, use of valuable resources for animal feed, pollution from factory farms, animal cruelty, overuse of antibiotics... it is a long list. Meat eating is just a bad habit that unfortunately seems to raise a lot of ire. 

    Posted by Craig Nazor on 05/08/2009 @ 10:11PM PT

  25. Eveline  Hartz

    I agree! We've been using cloth bags for over 20 years and they are still going strong. I keep them in the car and make myself go back and get them If I forget to bring them in. Now that the bags are only about 99 cents they are finally catching on in my neighborhood.
    As for eating vegetarian - since making the switch 9 years ago I haven't looked back. The world is so beautiful (as I look out my window today), there is so much other food available besides meat why even consider it. 
    Kudos to all vegetarians & cloth bag users!

    Posted by Eveline Hartz on 05/12/2009 @ 03:25AM PT

  26. Reply to thread
  27. nickie mcnichols

    Plastic or paper? Neither! Getting off plastic bags is easy. Our reusable bag of choice comes from ChicoBags.com. They roll up small enough to get 3 or 4 of them in my purse. We carry them in our car. There are so many options, using throw away plastic bags is inexcusable. It's the first step in becoming a more sustainable society!
    Then, we need to ban plastic water bottles...

    Posted by nickie mcnichols on 05/09/2009 @ 12:31AM PT

  28. Jacob Litoff

    Not only does a vegan diet take far less megajoules of energy to produce, but it takes far less land to produce it as well. It takes 20 times more land to produce a meal based on red meat and sugar than one based on a vegan diet with beans and rice.And the results of eating the red meat diet also make people much tougher to deal with hence the world may end shortly due to to many wars turning nuclear.  While according to Will Tuttle's book "The World Peace Diet" , and several books by Michio Kushi and George Ohsawa, there will be peace in  the world  only when humans are basically all vegan, or at least rarely eat any meat.  Sigh.... I think that will take to long. I guess 2012 is just around the corner.

    Posted by Jacob Litoff on 05/09/2009 @ 04:16AM PT

  29. Marguerite Gibson

    Most soy is gentically modified (bad), requires pesticides/herbicides (bad) to maintain vast monocultures (bad), and requires factories and energy (bad) to produce soy franken foods. Vast portions of South America have been deforested for king soy just as much of North American farmland has been monocultured with king corn.  If all your calculations are done compared to confined animal lots (bad) then a soy protein diet will come out ecologically ahead. BUT, if the calculations are done comparing the ecological effects of soy vs. a local polyculture farm raising animals based on grass which is nourished by animal feces and sunlight, I think the numbers will come out differently. I'll continue to eat the animals, eggs and dairy humanely and sustainably raised by my local farmer along with the local veggies. Soy? won't touch it with a 20 ft pole unless it is a traditionally fermented product and then in moderation, too many antinutrients and it's goitrogenic.
    Read the chapters about Joel Salatin's farm in "The Omnivore's Dilemma"  then read "The Whole Soy Story" by Kaayla T. Daniel

    Posted by Marguerite Gibson on 05/09/2009 @ 05:10AM PT

  30. Judith Lautner

    To be vegan does not necessarily require soy. Nor does it require, if you do eat soy, that it be genetically engineered soy or that pesticides be used. About 10% of the soybeans out there are free of pesticides and not genetically engineered. Most soy is NOT used for human consumption - but to support the meat and dairy industry.

    Michael Pollan's section on vegetarianism is the weakest part of his otherwise thoughtful book. He didn't want to know the facts so he did not learn them, unfortunately.

    Posted by Judith Lautner on 05/09/2009 @ 06:43AM PT

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  31. Josh Scheerer

    Marguerite,
    Although I am a vegan, I can appreciate your commitment to locally-produced food. But I do find your soy comparison a little silly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the vast majority of soy grown in South America produced for animal consumption? I have a hard time believing that the Amazon is being deforested on the account of a miniscule amount of vegans, and vegetarians. If a vegan has the option between foreign and local grown soy, I'm guessing he or she would pick the local. So, although your diet may be equal or superior to mine, assuming that I'm relying on soy which is grown in South America, in an ideal state (local soy vs. local animal products) my diet is still superior to yours (at least as far as the earth is concerned). I think it is important, when making comparisons, to compare apples to apples.

    Thanks for the suggested reading material..."The Omnivore's Dilemma" was already on my 'To-Read' list, I'll be sure to add "The Whole Soy Story" as well.

    Posted by Josh Scheerer on 05/09/2009 @ 07:01AM PT

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  32. Marguerite Gibson

    Yes, currently most soy is for animal consumption (not a good thing, ruminants esp should not eat soy) BUT if we all became vegan the same amount of soy then would be used for human consumption.  Organic soy would not have the petrochemical input but can soy for mass human consumption be sustainable without animal fertilizers? (no, not that crap from the feed lots that is contaminated with God knows what). I think this argument about animals causing global waming becomes a convenient argument for vegans against omnivores and some people are willing to take it at face value. There is evidence that intensive polyculutre rotational grazing on grass leads to net soil building and carbon sequestration over time. I agree that factory animal farms are an abomination morally and ecologically.

    Posted by Marguerite Gibson on 05/09/2009 @ 11:09AM PT

  33. Amy Willis

    Actually humans require way less soy than growing a cow, and thus way less land for the same amount of food.  Even if rotational grazing on grass could possibly sequester SOME carbon in the soil, it is completely insignificant compared to the sequestration provided by the complex ecosystem of the Amazon (or really any forest for that matter, but especially the Amazon).

    Posted by Amy Willis on 05/09/2009 @ 11:13AM PT

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  34. Judith Lautner

    It isn't necessary for humans to eat soy products at all.

    For some of you this may come as news. No, vegans do not need some specialized form of protein. Protein - plenty of it, more than we need - is available in almost every food we eat. We have no biological need to find concentrated versions of it.

    Nor do we need soy products for anything else. We may use them; we do not require them.

    Posted by Judith Lautner on 05/09/2009 @ 01:26PM PT

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  35. Craig Nazor

    Most people who want to be vegetarian for humane reasons can still get plenty of protein by having a few chickens in the back yard. They are excellent companions and will produce fine, organic eggs, eat all your bugs, add to the compost pile, and save you money.

    Posted by Craig Nazor on 05/10/2009 @ 10:29AM PT

  36. Elaine Vigneault

    Craig, the problem with "a few chickens in the backyard" (aside from the fact that many of us live in urban areas without enough room for "a few chickens") is that it assumes all chickens are female. What is to be done with all the males?

    Your ideal still relies on killing (the males). Your ideal still relies on forcing animals to live, breed, and die according to human whim. It's not "humane" at all.

    Posted by Elaine Vigneault on 05/15/2009 @ 11:41AM PT

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  37. Craig Nazor

    Chickens are born at a sex ratio of about 50% males and 50% females, but even in the wild, one male has a harem of several hens, so the imbalance in the sex ratio is a "natural" problem. It is possible to sex chickens when they are very young. It takes relatively little space to keep bantams, and it is legal in the City of Austin.
    It isn't a perfect solution, and I am seriously debating not getting more when these are gone (for the concerns you have mentioned), but in the meanwhile, these chickens were given to me, they are having good lives, and I am not forcing them to live, breed (they have infertile eggs), or die. It is also a great improvement to eating cows as far as global climate change pollution is concerned.
    For that matter, the issue of keeping ANY animal as a pet that must eat some component of meat in its diet is an ethical issue, and this includes cats and (arguably) dogs.

    Posted by Craig Nazor on 05/15/2009 @ 01:07PM PT

  38. Reply to thread
  39. Judith Lautner

    It's a mystery to me that it is so controversial here to ban plastic bags in groceries. This is already done in many European countries. Nobody's crying about it. It's easy to adjust to. I wonder why we are always so weak-willed and behind the times when it comes to the environment.

    Posted by Judith Lautner on 05/09/2009 @ 06:47AM PT

  40. Robert Coblentz

    I have two comments:

    1) Why is hemp still illegal to grow in the US? It is rapidly renewable, makes superior PAPER and cloth, is a better protein source than soy, and the oil has a near perfect balance of omega fatty acids.
    http://environment.about.com/od/greenlivingdesign/a/hemp.htm

    2) There is a proven way to sustainably raise animals for food. It's called polyface farming. Check it out.
    http://www.polyfacefarms.com/

    Posted by Robert Coblentz on 05/09/2009 @ 07:53AM PT

  41. Amy Willis

    These small family farms always seem to come up in debates about the environmental impacts of a meat-based diet, but in no way is this a panacaea.  First, it would be impossible to raise animals in this way and still support the amount of meat that people eat today.  There simply isn't enough land.  Also, this argument draws attention away from reality, making it seem like because this type of farming exists at all, meat-eaters' fears are assuaged and they won't have to worry about their environmental impact anymore.  The fact is, that most likely if you eat meat you are eating from a factory farm with an enormous impact on the land, air, and water.  For the amount of grain it takes to feed one person meat (because you need to feed this enormous animal before you can kill it), you could feed 10 people a vegetarian meal.  That means that if you sit at a table with a steak on your plate, you should pretty much imagine 10 people sitting there with nothing on their plate.  Also, cattle ranching is the number one cause of deforestation in the Amazon, which is the most rapidly deforested area in the world.  The second biggest cause is soy farming, which goes to feed the cattle.  It is MUCH harder to responsibly eat meat (if not impossible if you want to ever go to a restaurant or if you don't live near a place like polyface farms) than to just become vegan.

    Posted by Amy Willis on 05/09/2009 @ 09:21AM PT

  42. Robert Coblentz

    I don't think you really checked it out, because it isn't a small family farm.

    Posted by Robert Coblentz on 05/09/2009 @ 12:31PM PT

  43. Robert Coblentz

    The idea of polyface, is diversity, in that the same land has multiple uses, and each animal is complimentary to the next. The factory farm model is the problem, not eating meat, per se.

    Posted by Robert Coblentz on 05/09/2009 @ 12:41PM PT

  44. Elaine Vigneault

    Robert,
    The problems with your ideal are:

    a) Factory farming exists. Pandora's box has been opened. So long as people continue to eat animal flesh, someone will produce animal flesh through extremely cruel methods that pose threats to public health and the environment. You can't just wish that problem away, it is fundamentally linked to the "demand" for animal flesh and secretions. So... you promote your ideal and some rich people support it. That does NOTHING for the rest of the population or for the environment. Greedy capitalists will still factory farm where ever they can whenever there is a demand.

    b) It's not about "eating meat per se" it's about forcefully controling the existence of another, living, thinking, feeling being. The issue isn't what you eat, it's WHO.

    Posted by Elaine Vigneault on 05/15/2009 @ 11:48AM PT

  45. Reply to thread
  46. Wanda G.B.

    It is folly focusing on bags and even consumption. The problem is the inexorable population growth we allow. Americans have 2 kids/family, a sustainable number. But we allow (and Congress promotes) millions of newcomers every year (with higher than replacement birth rates.)So... buy as many cloth bags as you will but it is hopeless until we reduce immigration. Sorry, but that's the fundamental and unavoidable truth.

    "Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent." - Adam Smith, economist and ethicist 

        Everything you need to know about immigration and what to do about it humorously told.

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBw1nUlf38I   (Roy Beck and NumbersUSA are the "gumball" heroes) 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ 

    Posted by Wanda G.B. on 05/09/2009 @ 08:14AM PT

  47. Judith Lautner

    A couple reasons this argument is ridiculous:

    1. Immigrants exist. If they were not in this country they'd be in another. Whatever effect they have on the planet based on their existence is already there.
    2. It isn't the number of persons that matters; it's the consumption! Simple but seems so hard to grasp. We all know that Americans consume far more per person than any other citizens on earth. That's the problem.

    Posted by Judith Lautner on 05/09/2009 @ 08:27AM PT

  48. Michelle Patton

    Umm, this county is made up of immigrants. Today people look at immigrants as a dirty word but back when all the Europeans were immigrating to America they were looked upon as heros who built this county. Now that all the non-Europeans, non-whites want to immigrate to America its now a close door policy. Yeah they have built this country alright and what a county we have become.

    Posted by Michelle Patton on 05/09/2009 @ 09:03AM PT

  49. Kerri Chamberlin

    The argument about immigration only carries weight (which is questionable at best) if you are only looking at the US, and not the world population.  And when it comes to environmental issues, you really have to take the entire world population into account.

    Posted by Kerri Chamberlin on 05/10/2009 @ 09:50AM PT

  50. Reply to thread
  51. Henry Lieberman

    Overlooked in the bag debate is the fact that not everyone shops with a car. For those, like myself, that shop on a bicycle, the best way to carry stuff is in a single large paper bag bungeed on to my rear bike rack. Plastic bags won't hold their shape. Subway and bus users can carry a maximum of two bags. The suggestion of carrying a reusable bag isn't practical for bikers and public transit uses who would then have to carry around the bags all the time, to work, etc. Frustratingly, markets in my area are reducing the size of paper bags, necesssitating buying less on each trip, more packaging, and more trips. Why punish the people who are using most environmentally friendly transportation?

    Posted by Henry Lieberman on 05/09/2009 @ 09:13AM PT

  52. Amy Willis

    I walk, ride the bus, or ride a bike to the store every time I go, and I carry ChicoBags (which fold down to like 3 inches) and a backpack.  It's so ridiculously easy.  Seriously, there isn't an excuse to use paper or plastic just because you're using public transportation.

    Posted by Amy Willis on 05/09/2009 @ 09:23AM PT

  53. Michelle Bak

    High five for shopping on a bike! I do that, too, and I use my backpack to pack the groceries in. I have a backpack designed for "backpacking," so it's large and meant to carry a lot of weight. I'm just one person, so I don't have to buy too many groceries. However, if you need more space, here's my suggestion: if you have a rear bike rack, you can attach a milk crate to it. Then, you can stow additional stuff either right in the milk crate, or in a bag which you put in the milk crate, and you can use your bungee cords as needed to secure things. Happy shopping! =D

    Posted by Michelle Bak on 05/09/2009 @ 11:34AM PT

  54. Emily Gertz

    When I lived in Portland, I used two saddlebags to carry my groceries home on my bike.  They worked pretty well: waterproof, tough, easy to stabilize.  
    The only problematic thing was their shapes -- made for bicycle camping, when you can just cram stuff in without worrying about crushing anything. But I think there are some styles now that are intended specifically for city shopping -- squarer shapes, more like regular shopping bags with frames.

    Posted by Emily Gertz on 05/11/2009 @ 04:22PM PT

  55. Reply to thread
  56. Chloe Maxmin

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvOyYZCV7Xc

    THis is a link to another movie on Paper vs. Plastic that I made. I am currently organizing an initiative in my community and school that will make reusable bags available for sale (cheap) in many local stores. WE call it our town-wide reusable bag. the CLimate Action Club is responsible for this campaign (http://laclimateaction.webs.com). We have raised $4300 with which to buy reusable bags for our town. The bags will be in town by the summer. We estimate our efforts will save 671,000 plastic bags, 4.8 x 10^10 lbs of CO2, and 400,000,000 BTU's annually. Contact lincolnclimateaction@yahoo.com for further details, or visit our website listed above!

    Posted by Chloe Maxmin on 05/09/2009 @ 09:23AM PT

  57. Mandi Traut

    NO PLASTIC Please!

    Posted by Mandi Traut on 05/09/2009 @ 10:22AM PT

  58. starvin marvin

    Get rid of plastic and use paper bags.  Once I get my paper bags from the store, I use them all over the house mainly for garbage recycling bags (newspaper, cardboard. bottles, cans, plastics, junk mail, food donations, toy for my cat, and all the other recyclables that are collected in Oregon).  The paper bags end up in my recycling to and are quite bio-degradable.  Sometimes I even re-use paper bags for collecting more recycling.  I love paper bags.  Please don't take my paper bags away.  I always have a couple dozen used paper bags around and they disappear rapidly.  Everyone in my bhouse uses them for all kinds of things.  I have the cloth re-usable bags, but someone else is always using them, whenever I want them.  I have 5 re-usable cloth bags, but can never find one to use, when I go the store or food bank.  I am poor and disabled and can at least afford free paper bags.. 

    Posted by starvin marvin on 05/09/2009 @ 02:45PM PT

  59. Joseph M.  Varon

    Plastic bags have become a major problem for sea creatures. Many marine animals eat them , mistaking them as jelly fish as they float on top the water. They become impacted in their digestive system and eventually die because they can not excrete waist from their bodies. Many other marine organisms become entangled in the floating plastic.Starting at very early ages people must be taught to reduce, reuse and recycle plastic bags and to be responsible with their garbage when they visit the seashore and our beautiful parks. NY I'm proud to say now requires all major stores which give plastic bags to have receptacles for patrons to recycle their used bags. I hope  in the future that stores will be required to charge 5cents per bag. Hopefully that will encourage many to carry cloth re-usable bags. Joseph M. Varon, Past President, New York State Marine Ed. Assn.

    Posted by Joseph M. Varon on 05/09/2009 @ 07:42PM PT

  60. DC Grrl

    Great article as always, Emily. Thanks for putting these issues side-by-side.

    Posted by DC Grrl on 05/10/2009 @ 08:53AM PT

  61. Emily Gertz

    Thanks, DC!  I'm glad it's sparked so much good debate and conversation.

    Posted by Emily Gertz on 05/11/2009 @ 04:25PM PT

  62. Reply to thread
  63. Vasu Murti

    "A diet that can lead to heart attacks, cancer, and numerous other diseases cannot be a natural diet," writes Keith Akers in A Vegetarian Sourcebook.  "A diet that pillages our resources of land, water, forests, and energy cannot be a natural diet.  A diet that causes the unnecessary suffering and death of billions of animals each year cannot be a natural diet."

    I understand there are conservative Christians who fear vegetarianism...which is kind of like being afraid of nonsmoking, nondrinking, or recycling.  Ronald J. Sider of Evangelicals for Social Action, in his 1977 book, Rich Christians in an Age of Hunger, pointed out that 220 million Americans were eating enough food (largely because of the high consumption of grain fed to livestock) to feed over one billion people in the poorer countries.

    A pamphlet put out by Compassion Over Killing says raising animals for food is one of the leading causes of both pollution and resource depletion today.  According to a recent United Nations report, "Livestock's Long Shadow," raising chickens, turkeys, pigs, and other animals for food causes more greenhouse gas emissions than all the cars, trucks and other forms of transportation combined.  Researchers from the University of Chicago similarly concluded that a vegetarian diet is the most energy efficient, and the average American does more to reduce global warming emissions by not eating animal products than by switching to a hybrid car.

    A 2007 journal published by the American Dietetic Association found "meat protein production required 26 times more water than vegetable protein on rain-fed lands."  The journal further states that dieticians "can encourage eating that is both healthful and conserving of soil, water, and energy by emphasizing plant sources of protein and foods that have been produced with fewer agricultural inputs."

    "Livestock are one of the most significant contributors to today's most serious environmental problems.  Urgent action is required to remedy the situation."

    ---Union Nations' Food and Agriculture Association

    A single dairy cow produces approximately 120 pounds of wet manure per day, which is equivalent to that of 20 to 40 humans.

    70% of the grain grown and 50% of the water consumed in the U.S. are used by the meat industry.  (Audubon Society)

    On average 990 liters of water are required to produce one liter of milk.  (United Nations)

    Over 260 million acres of U.S. forest have been cleared to grow grain for livestock.  (Greenpeace)

    It takes nearly one gallon of fossil fuel and 5,200 gallons of water to produce just one pound of conventionally fed beef.  (Mother Jones)

    Farmed animals produce an estimated 1.4 billion tons of fecal waste each year in the U.S.  Much of this untreated waste pollutes the land and water.

    The number of animals killed for food in the United States is 70 times larger than the number of animals killed in laboratories, 30 times larger than the number killed by hunters and trappers, and 500 times larger than the number of animals killed in animal pounds.

    “If anyone wants to save the planet,” says Paul McCartney in a PETA interview, “all they have to do is stop eating meat. That’s the single most important thing you could do. It’s staggering when you think about it. Vegetarianism takes care of so many things in one shot: ecology, famine, cruelty. Let’s do it! Linda was right.  Going veggie is the single best idea for the new century.”

    Posted by Vasu Murti on 05/11/2009 @ 03:25PM PT

  64. Vasu Murti

    The following quotes, facts, figures, and statistics are excerpted from Please Don't Eat the Animals (2007) by Jennifer Horsman and Jaime Flowers:

    "A reduction in beef and other meat consumption is the most potent single act you can take to halt the destruction of our environment and preserve our natural resources.  Our choices do matter:  What's healthiest for each of us personally is also healthiest for the life support system of our precious, but wounded planet."

    ---John Robbins, author, Diet for a New America, and President, EarthSave Foundation

    One study puts animal waste in the United States to between 2.4 trillion to 3.9 trillion pounds per year.  The United states produces 15,000 pounds of manure per person.  This is 130 times the amount of waste produced by the entire human population of the United States.

    A 1,000-cow dairy can produce approximately 120,000 pounds of waste per day.  This is the functional equivalent of the amount of sanitary waste produced by a city of 20,000 people.

    A 20,000-chicken factory produces about 2.4 million pounds of manure a year.  Poultry factories are one of the fastest growing industries throughout Asia.

    One pig excretes nearly three gallons of waste per day, or 2.5 times the average human's daily total.  One hog farm with 50,000 pigs in France produces more waste than the entire city of Los Angeles, and some pig farms are much larger.

    Factory farm pollution is the primary source of damage to coastal waters in North and South America, Europe, and Asia.  Scientists report that over sixty percent of the coastal waters in the United States are moderately to severely degraded from factory farm nutrient pollution.  This pollution creates oxygen-depleted dead zones, which are huge areas of ocean devoid of aquatic life.

    Meat production causes deforestation, which then contributes to global warming.  Trees convert carbon dioxide into oxygen, and the destruction of forests around the globe to make room for grazing cattle furthers the greenhouse effect.  The Food and Agricultural Organization of the United Nations reports that the annual rate of tropical deforestation has increased from 9 million hectares in 1980 to 16.8 million hectares in 1990, and unfortunately, this destruction has accelerated since then.  By 1994, a staggering 200 million hectares of rainforest had been destroyed in South America just for cattle.

    "The impact of countless hooves and mouths over the years has done more to alter the type of vegetation and land forms of the West than all the water projects, strip mines, power plants, freeways, and sub-division developments combined."

    ---Philip Fradkin, in Audubon, National Audubon Society, New York

    Agricultural meat production generates air pollution.  As manure decomposes, it releases over 400 volatile organic compounds, many of which are extremely harmful to human health.  Nitrogen, a major by-product of animal wastes, changes to ammonia as it escapes into the air, and this is a major source of acid rain.  Worldwide, livestock produce over 30 million tons of ammonia.  Hydrogen sulfide, another chemical released from animal waste, can cause irreversible neurological damage, even at low levels.

    The World Conservation Union lists over 1,000 different fish species that are threatened or endangered. According to the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) estimate, over 60 percent of the world's fish species are either fully exploited or depleted.  Commercial fish populations of cod, hake, haddock, and flounder have fallen by as much as 95 percent in the north Atlantic.

    The United States and Europe lose several billion tons of topsoil each year from cropland and grazing land, and 84 percent of this erosion is caused by livestock agriculture.  While this soil is theoretically a renewable resource, we are losing soil at a much faster rate than we are able to replace it.  It takes 100 to 500 years to produce one inch of topsoil, but due to livestock grazing and feeding, farming areas can lose up to six inches of topsoil a year.

    Livestock production affects a startling 70 to 85 percent of the land area of the United States, United Kingdom, and the European Union.  That includes the public and private rangeland used for grazing, as well as the land used to produce the crops that feed the animals.  By comparison, urbanization only affects 3 percent of the United States land area, slightly larger for the European Union and the United Kingdom.  Meat production consumes the world's land resources.

    Half of all fresh water worldwide is used for thirsty livestock.  Producing eight ounces of beef requires an unimaginable 25,000 liters of water, or the water necessary for one pound of steak equals the water consumption of the average household for a year.

    The United States government spends $10 million each year to kill an estimated 100,000 wild animals, including coyotes, foxes, bobcats, badgers, bears, and mountain lions just to placate ranchers who don't want these animals killing their livestock.  The cost far outweighs the damage to livestock that these predators cause.

    The Worldwatch Institute estimates one pound of steak from a steer raised in a feedlot costs:  five pounds of grain, a whopping 2,500 gallons of water, the energy equivalent of a gallon of gasoline, and about 34 pounds of topsoil.

    33 percent of our nation's raw materials and fossil fuels go into livestock destined for slaughter.  In a vegan economy, only 2 percent of our resources will go to the production of food.

    "It seems disingenuous for the intellectual elite of the first world to dwell on the subject of too many babies being born in the second- and third-world nations while virtually ignoring the overpopulation of cattle and the realities of a food chain that robs the poor of sustenance to feed the rich a steady diet of grain-fed meat."

    ---Jeremy Rifkin, author, Beyond Beef:  The Rise and Fall of the Cattle Culture, and president of the Greenhouse Crisis Foundation

    Lester Brown of the Overseas Development Council calculates that if Americans reduced their meat consumption by only 10 percent per year, it would free at least 12 million tons of grain for human consumption--or enough to feed 60 million people.

    Posted by Vasu Murti on 05/11/2009 @ 05:26PM PT

  65. Clarence Warren

     Your info is extremely powerful and persuasive, but I sense that you preaching to the choir on this blog. I  wonder if you have any suggestions for convincing the people with the opposing lifestyles.  It is obvious that logic and rational data aren't going to significantly change the consumption habits of most habitual meat-eaters. It is the frustration of many Third World peoples with the over-consumption of Western societies and the general sense of entitlement to world resources among Western societies causing such phenomena as Al Queda and other acts of rebellion against Western values and culture.  Hopefully, the world can change peacefully, I personally am not very hopeful in this area.  Unfortunately or perhaps not so unfortunately, some oppositional forces have decided that the best solution for this problem would be systematic reduction of Western peoples and their supporters on this planet with their wasteful consumption patterns and asocial behaviors.      

    Posted by Clarence Warren on 05/12/2009 @ 01:26PM PT

  66. Vasu Murti

    Would the threat of global hunger be enough to convince the other side?  See below:

    "Global hunger could be directly attributed to meat-eating."

    ---Chrissie Hynde

    Half the world's population does not receive an adequate amount of food to eat.  Ten to twenty million die annually of hunger and its effects.  The Institute for Food and Development Policy reports that, "Forty thousand children starve to death on this planet every day," or one child every two seconds.

    The livestock population of the United States today consumes enough grain and soybeans to feed over five times the entire human population of the country.   We feed these animals over 80% of the corn we grow, and over 95% of the oats.   Less than half the harvested agricultural acreage in the United States is used to grow food for people.  Most of it is used to grow livestock feed.

    Ronald J. Sider of Evangelicals for Social Action, in his 1977 book, Rich Christians in an Age of Hunger, pointed out that 220 million Americans were eating enough food (largely because of the high consumption of grain-fed livestock) to feed over one billion people in the poorer countries.

    The world's cattle alone, not to mention pigs and chickens, consume a quantity of food equal to the caloric needs of 8.7 billion people.  It takes 16 pounds of grain to produce one pound of beef.  According to Department of Agriculture statistics, one acre of land can grow 20,000 pounds of potatoes.  That same acre of land, if used to grow cattlefeed, can produce less than 165 pounds of beef.

    In his book, The Hungry Planet, Georg Bergstrom points out that protein-starved underdeveloped nations export more protein to wealthy nations than they receive.  He calls this "the protein swindle."  Ninety percent of the world's fish meal catch, for example, is exported to rich countries.  One-third of Africa's peanut crop winds up in the stomachs of European livestock.  Half the world's cereal crop is fed to livestock and the United States annually imports one million tons of vegetable protein from Third World nations--just to feed its farm animals.

    Bergstrom writes: "Sometimes one wonders how many Americans and Western Europeans have grasped the fact that quite a few of their beef steaks, quarts of milk, dozens of eggs, and hundreds of broilers are the result, not of their agriculture, but of the approximately two million metric tons of protein, mostly of high quality, which astute Western businessmen channel away from the needy and hungry."

    Jeremy Rifkin, author of a dozen influential books and President of the Foundation on Economic Trends, writes in his 1992 bestseller Beyond Beef:

    "Cattle and other livestock are devouring much of the grain produced on the planet.  It need be emphasized that this is a new phenomenon, unlike anything ever experienced before.

    "Contrary to popular belief, the poor are getting poorer each year...Increased poverty has meant increased malnutrition.  On the African continent, nearly one in every four human beings is malnourished.  In Latin America, nearly one out of every seven people goes to bed hungry each night.  In Asia and the Pacific, 28 percent of the people border on starvation, experiencing the gnawing pain of a perpetual hunger."

    "In the Near East, one in ten people is underfed.  Chronic hunger now affects upwards of 1.3 billion people, according to the world Health Organization--a statistic all the more striking in a world where one third of all the grain produced is being fed to cattle and other livestock.  Never before in human history has such a large percentage of our species--nearly 25 percent--been malnourished.

    "The transition of world agriculture from food grain to feed grains represents an...evil whose consequences may be far greater and longer lasting than any past examples of violence inflicted by men against their fellow human beings."

    In the 1970s, the United Nations Secretary General said that the food consumption of the rich countries is the key cause of hunger around the world.  The United Nations has recommended that the wealthy nations cut down on their meat consumption.

    The Worldwatch Institute has released a remarkable report entitled Taking Stock: Animal Farming and the Environment, which lists nation after nation where food deprivation has followed the switch from a grain-based diet to a meat-based one.

    Most of the nations that now import grain from the United States were once self-sufficient in grain.  The main reason they aren't is the rise in meat production and consumption.

    In Taiwan, for example, per capita consumption of meat and eggs increased 600 percent from 1950 to 1990.  With this change, vastly increased amounts of grain have gone to livestock, raising the annual per capita grain use in the country from 375 pounds to 858 pounds.  In 1950, Taiwan was a grain exporter; in 1990 the nation imported, mostly for feed, 74 percent of the grain it used.

    In mainland China, the situation is similar.  Increased meat consumption has meant less grain available to feed people.  Since 1978, meat consumption has more than doubled, to twenty-four kilograms.  The share of Chinese grain fed to livestock rose from 7 percent in 1960 to 20 percent in 1990.

    Over half Of Latin America's beef production is exported, and the rest is too expensive for any but the wealthy to purchase.  From 1960 to 1980 beef exports from El Salvador increases over sixfold.  Meanwhile, increasing numbers of small farmers lost their livelihood and were pushed off their land. Today, 72 percent of all Salvadoran infants are underfed.

    In Brazil, major portions of the Amazon tropical rain forests have been destroyed so that wealthy multinational corporations can produce beef for the wealthy.   Corporations such as Volkswagen, Nestle, Mitsubishi, Liquigas, King Ranch, and Swift-Eckrich have bulldozed and burned literally hundreds of millions of acres, replacing the world's oldest and richest ecosystems, home to two million or more species of plant and animal life with a single crop--pasture grass for cattle.  And here, the beef produced has not gone to feed hungry Brazilians; it has been primarily exported to Western Europe, the Middle East, and North America.  In 1987, the United States imported three hundred million pounds of meat from countries in Central and South America.

    With the help of international lending institutions, Brazil has mounted an enormous effort to increase agricultural production, but this has been primarily meat-oriented production and for export.  In the late '60s, soybeans were almost nonexistent or Brazil.  Today, this crop is the nation's number one export--but almost all of it goes to feed Japanese and European livestock.  Twenty five years ago, one third of the Brazilian population suffered from malnutrition.  Today, the figure has risen to two thirds.

    Oxfam, the international charity, reports that in Brazil huge cattle ranches take up some of the most fertile soil in the whole country, yet 60 percent of Brazilians are malnourished.  Oxfam estimates that in Mexico, 80 percent of the children in rural areas are undernourished, yet the livestock are fed more grain than the human population eats!  The livestock are exported of course, to satisfy the developed nations' craving for cheap hamburgers.

    In the early '60s, sorghum was almost unknown in Mexico.  But by 1980, it covered literally twice the acreage of wheat.  Sorghum isn't grown for humans.   It is fed to livestock.  In the late '60s, livestock consumed only 6 percent of Mexico's grain.  Today, the figure is over 50 percent.  This is a trend throughout the Third World.  Copying the United States' meat-oriented diet, these poor countries devote increasing percentages of their resources to meat production.

    In Guatemala, 75 percent of the children under five years of age are undernourished.  Yet, every year Guatemala exports 40 million pounds of meat to the United States. It borders on the criminal!

    In Costa Rica, beef production quadrupled between 1960 and 1980, but almost all this beef is exported to the United States, and what does stay in the country is eaten by a tiny minority.  Though more and more Costa Rican land is being turned over to meat production, the population is not eating more meat for the change.  The average family in Costa Rica eats less meat than the average American housecat.

    Throughout Latin America, land availability is a prominent social issue.   Revolutionaries as well as reform-minded moderates have made land reform a major issue.  Yet in many Latin American countries, forests are being leveled in order to create pastures for cattle grazing land.

    In a region where land availability is a central social issue, existing land is being gobbled up by livestock agriculture.   The resulting social tensions have resulted in civil wars, repression and violence.

    Hunger is really a social disease caused by the unjust, inefficient and wasteful control of food.  Our food security is not being threatened by the prolific, hungry masses, but by elites that profit by the concentration and internationalization of control of food resources.

    In country after country the pattern is repeated.  Livestock industries are consuming feed to such an extent that now almost all Third World nations must import grain.  Seventy-five percent of Third World imports of corn, barley, sorghum, and oats are fed to animals, not to people.  In country after country, the demand for meat among the rich is squeezing out staple production for the poor.

    The same trend can be found in the Middle East and North Africa--increases in grain-fed livestock require more imported feed.  In the early '70s, Egypt was self-sufficient in grain.  Then, livestock ate only 10 percent of the nation's grain.  Today, livestock consume 36 percent of Egypt's grain.  As a result, Egypt must now import eight million tons of grain every year.

    In the late '60s , Syria was a barley exporter.  But in the intervening years, livestock has consumed increasing amounts of the country's grain.   Now, despite a phenomenal 1,000 percent increase in the land area devoted to producing barley, Syria must import the cereal.

    According to Buckminster Fuller, there are enough resources at present to feed, clothe, house and educate every human being on the planet at American middle class standards.  The Institute for Food and Development Policy has shown that there is no country in the world in which the people cannot feed themselves from their own resources.

    Moreover, there is no correlation between land density and hunger.   China has twice as many people per cultivated acre as India, yet less of a hunger problem.  Bangladesh has just one-half the people per cultivated acre that Taiwan has, yet Taiwan has no starvation, while Bangladesh has one of the highest rates in the world.  The most densely populated countries in the world today are not India and Bangladesh, but Holland and Japan.

    Many of us believe that hunger exists because there's not enough food to go around.  But as Frances Moore Lappe' and her anti-hunger organization Food First! have shown, the real cause of hunger is a scarcity of justice, not a scarcity of food.

    Posted by Vasu Murti on 05/12/2009 @ 05:45PM PT

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  67. Emily Gertz

    Vasu, I would also like to ask you to create comments that are more concise.  

    You'll find that people are better able to engage with your ideas when you are not piling on with dozen points at once.

    Posted by Emily Gertz on 05/12/2009 @ 06:28PM PT

  68. Clarence Warren

    Mr. Vasu,I am very impressed with your info, but I don't think that meat-consumers are responding the over-whelming logic in material. My major question for you still remains how will you convince the majority to adopt a lifestyle more advantageous to the overall welfare of the planet?  I still insist that most people on this blog will not debate the legitimacy of your info, but it is another thing convincing entrenched meat-eaters that their meat-consumption habit is generally destructive to the planet. Imagine that you are in a position of power how would you convince this population of people to change their nutritional without a barrage of info from your personal books and magazines?  

    Posted by Clarence Warren on 05/15/2009 @ 09:55AM PT

  69. Elaine Vigneault

    "Imagine that you are in a position of power how would you convince this population of people to change their nutritional without a barrage of info from your personal books and magazines?"

    I'm not Vasu but here's what I would do:

    a) Forget about the "entrenched meat-eaters" and focus on the children, young adults, and veg-wannabes.

    b) Work on making it easier to make the choice to go veg:  develop veg community, develop more veg options in restaurants, schools, hospitals, prisons, grocery stores...

    c) Use any and all ethical means to promote veganism.

    Posted by Elaine Vigneault on 05/15/2009 @ 12:21PM PT

  70. Clarence Warren

    Thanks Ms. Vigneault,I appreciate your suggestions for the change of meat-eaters. Your methods, I am sure, could effect some change in the those carnivore-centered  lifestyles over a period of time. I have read the majority of comments on this blog, and the majority of comment writers don't need the rationale and logic behind vegan diets, but it is more helpful to discuss the implementation of healthier lifestyles on our planet. I don't think that most people actually respond to preaching from anyone.  Ghandi said that one should be the change that one wants to see in the world. In other words, people learn best from demonstration and doing rather than reading and logical discourses from teachers or authors.  I hope that Mr. Vasu has an opportunity to read your suggestions!!  Peace and Blessings!

    Posted by Clarence Warren on 05/15/2009 @ 01:00PM PT

  71. Jacob Litoff

    With all the water it takes to supply cows with their food and water there won't be enough water on the planet for to much longer to let both  cows and humans live with the number of cows it takes to feed the more and more meat eating humans.So shortly either cows will go extinct or humans will go extinct. Take your choice.  Hopefully if it is humans that go towards extinction  and the vegans will be the ones left on the planet since their lifestyle is one that can be lived in harmony with the planet.  Ahhh what a peaceful world we'll have then. I just can't wait.  Just think, no money spent on nuclear bombs.  The only fight we'll have then is to see if the human species can continue on this planet with very few of us left.  I find it amazing that the biggest battles being fought right now in the world aren't battles using the military, but just to keep common sense from going extinct.  

    Posted by Jacob Litoff on 05/16/2009 @ 05:16AM PT

  72. Emily Gertz

    Are you saying humans with vegan diets won't find a hundred other reasons to fight with each other?  That would be...inhuman!

    Posted by Emily Gertz on 05/20/2009 @ 08:05AM PT

  73. Vasu Murti

    War and abortion are the karmic reaction for killing animals:

    "When we turn to the protection of animals, we sometimes hear it said that we ought to protect men first and animals afterwards...By condoning cruelty to animals, we perpetuate the very spirit which condones cruelty to men."

    ---Henry Salt

    The fate of the animals and the fate of man are interconnected.  (Ecclesiastes 3:19)  A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada said in 1974:

    "We simply request, 'Don't kill. Don't maintain slaughterhouses.'  That is very sinful.  It brings a very awkward karmic reaction upon society.  Stop these slaughterhouses.  We don't say, 'Stop eating meat.'  You can eat meat, but don't take it from the slaughterhouse, by killing.  Simply wait (until the animal dies of natural causes) and you'll get the carcasses.

    "You are killing innocent cows and other animals--nature will take revenge.  Just wait.  As soon as the time is right, nature will gather all these rascals and slaughter them.  Finished.  They'll fight among themselves--Protestants and Catholics, Russia and America, this one and that one.  It is going on.  Why?  This is nature's law.  Tit for tat.  'You have killed. Now you kill yourselves.'

    "They are sending animals to the slaughterhouse, and now they'll create their own slaughterhouse.  You see?  Just take Belfast.  The Roman Catholics are killing the Protestants, and the Protestants are killing the Catholics.  This is nature's law.  It is not necessary that you be sent to the ordinary slaughterhouse.  You'll make a slaughterhouse at home.  You'll kill your own child--abortion.  This is nature's law.

    "Who are these children being killed?  They are these meat-eaters.  They enjoyed themselves when so many animals were killed and now they're being killed by their own mothers.  People do not know how nature is working.  If you kill you must be killed.  If you kill the cow, who is your mother, then in some future lifetime your mother will kill you.  Yes.  The mother becomes the child, and the child becomes the mother.

    "We don't want to stop trade, or the production of grains and vegetables and fruit.  But we want to stop these killing houses.  It is very, very sinful.  That is why all over the world they have so many wars.  Every ten or fifteen years there is a big war--a wholesale slaughterhouse for humankind.  But these rascals--they do not see it, that by the law of karma, every action must have its reaction."

    Similarly, in his purport to the Srimad Bhagavatam 6.10.9, Srila Prabhupada writes: "One cannot continue killing animals and at the same time be a religious man. That is the greatest hypocrisy. Jesus Christ said, 'Do not kill,' but hypocrites nevertheless maintain thousands of slaughterhouses while posing as Christians. Such hypocrisy is condemned..."

    And:

    "If one kills many thousands of animals in a professional way so that other people can purchase the meat to eat, one must be ready to be killed in a similar way in his next life and in life after life.  There are many rascals who violate their own religious principles.  According to Judeo-Christian scriptures, it is clearly said, 'Thou shalt not kill.'  Nonetheless, giving all kinds of excuses, even the heads of religions indulge in killing animals while trying to pass as saintly persons.  This mockery and hypocrisy in human society brings about unlimited calamities; therefore occasionally there are great wars.  Masses of such people go out onto battlefields and kill themselves.  Presently, they have discovered the atomic bomb, which is simply waiting to be used for wholesale destruction."

    (Chaitanya Charitamrita, Madhya 24.251, purport)

    Also:

    "To be nonviolent to human beings and to be a killer or enemy of the poor animals is Satan's philosophy.  In this age there is enmity towards poor animals, and therefore the poor creatures are always anxious. The reaction of the poor animals is being forced on human society, and therefore there is always the strain of cold or hot war between men, individually, collectively or nationally."

    (Srimad Bhagavatam 1.10.6, purport)

    "In human society, if one kills a man he has to be hanged.  That is the law of the state.  Because of ignorance people do not perceive that there is a complete state controlled by the Supreme Lord. Every living creature is the son of the Supreme Lord, and He does not tolerate even an ant's being killed.  One has to pay for it."

    Posted by Vasu Murti on 05/20/2009 @ 03:27PM PT

  74. Reply to thread
  75. Vasu Murti

    Linnaeus, who introduced binomial nomenclature (naming plants and animals according to their physical structure) wrote: "Man's structure, external and internal, compared with that of other animals shows that fruit and succulent vegetables constitute his natural food."

    The fact that predators exist in the wild does not imply man must automatically imitate them. Cannibalism and rape also occur in nature.  Robert Louis Stevenson, in his book In the South Seas, noted that there was virtually no difference between the "civilized" Europeans and the "savages" of the Cannibal Islands:

    "We consume the carcasses of creatures with like appetites, passions, and organs as our own. We feed on babes, though not our own, and fill the slaughterhouses daily with screams of pain and fear."

    Studies indicate flesh-eaters have less endurance than do vegetarians, while vegetarians have two to three times greater stamina and recover five times more quickly from exhaustion.  Most major forms of cancer, as well as heart disease, osteoporosis, kidney disease, diabetes, multiple sclerosis, hemorrhoids, diverticulosis, arthritis, gallstones and gallbladder disease are all preventable and treatable on a vegetarian diet.

    The ill effects of alcohol, nicotine, etc. are well-documented.  The Federal Bureau of Investigation, for example, reports that some 60 to 75 percent of all violent crime is alcohol-related.  Might there be a similar relationship between the consumption of animal flesh and human behavior?

    In a letter to a friend on the subject of vegetarianism, Albert Einstein wrote, "besides agreeing with your aims for aesthetic and moral reasons, it is my view that a vegetarian manner of living by its purely physical effect on the human temperament would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind."

    U Nu, the former Prime Minister of Burma, made a similar observation: "World peace, or any other kind of peace, depends greatly on the attitude of the mind.   Vegetarianism can bring about the right mental attitude for peace...it holds forth a better way of life, which, if practiced universally, can lead to a better, more just, and more peaceful community of nations."

    According to Count Leo Tolstoy, "A vegetarian diet is the acid test of humanitarianism."

    Thomas Tryon (1634-1703) warned the first Quaker settlers of Pennsylvania that their "holy experiment" in peaceful living would fail unless they extended their Christian precepts of nonviolence to the animal kingdom:

    "Does not bounteous Mother Earth furnish us with all sorts of food necessary for life?" he asked. "Though you will not fight with and kill those of your own species, yet I must be bold to tell you, that these lesser violences (as you call them) do proceed from the same root of wrath and bitterness as the greater do."

    Reverend Basil Wrighton, the chairman of the Catholic Study Circle for Animal Welfare in London, wrote in a 1965 article entitled, "The Golden Age Must Return: A Catholic's Views on Vegetarianism," that a vegetarian diet is not only consistent with, but actually required by the tenets of Christianity. He concluded that the killing of animals for food not only violates religious tenets, but brutalizes humans to the point where violence and warfare against other humans becomes inevitable.

    "Who loves this terrible thing called war?" asked Isadora Duncan.   "Probably the meat-eaters, having killed, feel the need to kill...The butcher with his bloody apron incites bloodshed, murder.  Why not? From cutting the throat of a young calf to cutting the throats of our brothers and sisters is but a step.   While we ourselves are living graves of murdered animals, how can we expect any ideal conditions on the earth?"

    "I personally believe," wrote Isaac Bashevis Singer, "that as long as human beings will go on shedding the blood of animals, there will never be any peace.   There is only one little step from killing animals to creating gas chambers a' la Hitler and concentration camps a' la Stalin--all such deeds are done in the name of 'social justice.'  There will be no justice as long as man will stand with a knife or with a gun and destroy those who are weaker than he is."

    The way we treat animals IS indicative of the way we treat our fellow humans.   One Soviet study, published in  Ogonyok, found that over 87% of a group of violent criminals has, as children, burned, hanged, or stabbed domestic animals.  In our own country, a major study by Dr. Stephen Kellert of Yale University found that children who abuse animals have a much higher likelihood of becoming violent criminals.

    A 1997 study by the Massachusetts Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (MSPCA) reported that children convicted of animal abuse are five times more likely to commit violence against other humans than are their peers, and four times more likely to be involved in acts against property.

    Studies of inmates in a number of U. S. prisons reveal the almost none of the convicts had a pet as a child.  None of them had this opportunity to learn respect and care for another creature's life and to feel valuable in so doing.

    But these attitudes can be reversed, even in criminals.  Heartwarming research has been done in which convicts nearing their release dates were allowed to have pet cats in their cells with them.   The result?  "Of the men who loved and cared for their cats, not a single one later failed as a free man to adjust to society."  This in a penal system where over 70% of released convicts are expected to return to jail.

    Meat-eating contributes to the fear in the world by putting us in a position in which there is not enough to go around.  But that's not all.   Meat-eaters ingest residues of the animal's biochemical response to the horrors of the Slaughterhouse.  Programmed to fight or flee when in danger for their lives, the animals react to the slaughterhouse in sheer terror. Powerful biochemical agents are secreted that pump through their bloodstreams and onto their flesh, energizing them to fight or flee for their lives.

    Like screaming air rain sirens, these chemical agents produce instinctual panic.  Today's slaughterhouses virtually guarantee that the animals will die in terror.

    The Maoris would eat the flesh of a slaughtered enemy in order to possess the enemy's courage and strength.  The people of the lower Nubia, likewise, would eat the fox, believing that by so doing, they would be possessed of his cunning.

    In upper Egypt, the heart of the hoopoe bird was eaten in order to acquire the ability to become a clever scribe.  The bird would be caught and its heart would be torn out and eaten while it was still alive.  On the other hand, certain Native American tribes would not eat the flesh of an animal who died in fear, because they did not want to take into themselves the terror of such an animal.

    When we eat animals who have died violent deaths we literally eat their fear.  We take in biochemical agents designed by nature to tell an animal that its life is in the gravest danger, and it must either fight or flee for its life.   And then, in our wars and our daily lives, we give expression to the panic in which the animals we have eater died.

    "Truly man is the king of beasts, for his brutality exceeds them," said Leonardo da Vinci.  "We live by the death of others.  We are burial places!  I have since an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men will look upon the murder of animals as they look upon the murder of man."

    Posted by Vasu Murti on 05/20/2009 @ 10:33AM PT

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Emily Gertz

Emily is a journalist and editor covering the environment and science, and has been working in online news, community and content since 1994.

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