Sue, I think you've misread my arguments.  It has nothing to do with polish or footnotes; I'm well aware of the facts.  It has to do with making a good case for what you advocate.  

I agree that any abuses of animals are completely unacceptable.  But these abuses, in and of themselves, are not the best reasons to not eat meat ever again, because it follows that if and when they are ended, and animals are being well cared for, eating meat becomes okay.
That the environmental problems are happening is also unarguable.  But again, they're a poor argument for not eating meat, if what you're really after is a permanent renunciation of the omnivorous diet.  Because they can be solved; in fact I can already buy meats that are produced without causing any of these harms.
At best, these are great arguments for not eating meat RIGHT NOW, unless you can be sure the animals have been raised humanely, and the farm is managed with environmentally sound practices.
Adding collapsing ocean fisheries into the argument makes even less sense.  They are their own case, bearing little resemblance to land-based husbandry in both the causes and the solutions of the crisis.  

You can say it often, but if you say it rudely, your comments will be deleted.

Philip I'm not really going to go into a huge discussion here...because it seems like arguing with you would be pointless...but I would like to point out the fact that the energy it takes to "grow" one pound of meat is worth the energy it takes to "grow" 24 plates worth of Spaghetti...so who is the one really concerned about other people and world hunger?? The Vegetarian/Vegan or the meat eater? Make sure before you argue something you do your research first.

Kristen, your assertion that it takes more energy to grow one pound of meat than to grow 24 plates worth of spaghetti is demonstrably untrue. Let's consider this from the perspective of backyard-scale production so it's a little easier to wrap our heads around.

One meat rabbit can get grow to four pounds in just eight weeks eating nothing more than grass and weeds. The only energy I need to raise that rabbit is to build some means of containing it, and to change it's water daily. If it's in a cage, I'll have to gather the grass and weeds myself. If it's in a larger, botomless pen, I'll have to move that every so often.

To make my own spaghetti from scratch, on the other hand, I first need to till the soil. Even using biointensive methods, you're going to have to prepare a plot of about 150 square feet to grow six pounds of wheat, enough for 24 4oz. servings. If you ever planted even just a tiny vegetable garden, you know what a tremendous amount of energy it takes to turn over sod, bust it up, rake it. etc. After doing that, you need to plant the seed, then water it and protect it for about twice as long as you do the rabbit. Once the wheat is ripe, you mow it, thresh it, winnow it, and grind it into flour. Then you have to mix the flour into a dough, then stretch it and cut it into noodles. That's a lot of work!

Of course, all I've proven is that four servings of meat are less work than 24 servings of pasta, but look at the relative nutritive values, ounce-for-ounce, of beef versus pasta.

I'm a small-scale urban farmer. Other than my truck and roto-tiller, I'm doing everything by hand. I spend a larger portion of my time growing vegetables, but a larger portion of my income still comes from meat. Meat is *far* more efficient if done intelligently.

Does no one interested in discussing animal rights know how to differentiate between emotion, fact, and reason?  


Phrasing your opinion along the lines of "If you animal activists would..." borders on rude.  Your assertion that your opinion is being quashed is demonstrably untrue.  Both suggest a preference toward trolling for a controversy than having a conversation.