Stop Global Warming

Fatalistic Friday: Crumbling Arctic glacier, 43 new coal plants, more

Published July 17, 2009 @ 05:45PM PT

Above: Researcher Alun Hubbard discusses the break up of the ice at the edge of the Petermann glacier, Greenland

Breaking Bad: A 5-billion-metric-ton hunk of ice is "poised" to break away from the largest glacier in the northern hemisphere, say independent scientists working with enviro-advocacy group Greenpeace. The researchers are observing the glacier from the Greenpeace ship Arctic Sunrise.

If and when the Manhattan-sized "tongue" of ice detaches from the Petermann glacier, on Greenland's northwest coast, the mass of land-bound ice behind it may flow downhill and melt more quickly. It's the introduction of this landbound freshwater ice into the world's seas that will likely lead to rises in sea levels.

"Ocean warming currents are circulating around the fjord here and eroding the underbelly of Petermann glacier at an incredible rate, which is 25 times that of the surface melt," Dr Alun Hubbard, a glaciologist at the University Of Wales. (The Sydney Morning Herald, New Scientist)

Coooooooal! A coal plant construction "bubble" will result in 43 new coal plants in the US in the next five years -- and none of them will be regulated by the climate legislation currently being debated in Congress. The 43 are permitted, near construction, or already being built, and thus will fall under the federal designation "progressing projects," and evade caps on their carbon dioxide pollution. "The 43 progressing plants are projected to add four times that generating capacity – 22,236 MW – in the coming five years. Collectively, they will produce more than 150 million tons of new CO2 emissions every year for many decades." (SolveClimate)

Pond Scum of the Earth: Depending on your point of view, it's either great news or awful news that petro-giant ExxonMobil is investing more than half a million dollars in developing biofuel from algae. In a partnership with biotech entrepreneur Craig Ventner's Synthetic Genomics, Exxon will sink $600 million into deriving biofuel from the slimy green stuff. Algae is considered a hot prospect for biofuel development, since no one eats it. (Associated Press)

A View to a Risk: The head of the Nigerian equivalent of FEMA says that the nation is extremely vulnerable to the impacts of climate change. Mohammed Audu-Bida "said the climate change had already manifested in the country with sea level rise leading to coastal and marine erosion and flooding, particularly in South- South and South-West, and bleaching of coral reefs along the coastal zone. The NEMA boss warned that with certain percentage of the population living within the coast and most cities concentrated along the coastline, the vulnerability to marine-induced disasters from tidal waves and storm surges would also increase." (This Day online)

The Vanishing:"The song of the skylark is the quintessential sound of an English summer," reports the Daily Mail. "But now, because of global warming, it faces being drowned out - by the chirrup of crickets." Skylark populations in England have dropped by 53%, since 1970. Populations two species of crickets once found only on the Sceptered Isle's southernmost tips have grown sixfold, meanwhile, and extended their range northward. (Daily Mail)

Sink or Swim Sink: Indonesia's Environment Minister says that developing nations like India, Brazil and China will destroy archepelagic nations if they don't agree to binding 2020 targets for cutting heat-trapping greenhouse gas emissions. ""The countries have even been unable to set the target for emission reduction in 2050," said Rachmat Witoelar this past Tuesday. "While these countries are hesitant to take real action, island countries will probably disappear from the world map." (Jakarta Post)

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Comments (39)

  1. Laura Legere

    Our whole solar system is warming up, not just earth. Here is a website link to a group of scientists that are not connected to any government or conflict of interest. There is interesting data to be informed about on this issue.

    http://biocab.org/Cosmic_Rays_Graph.html#anchor_77

    Posted by Laura Legere on 07/17/2009 @ 11:22PM PT

  2. Emily Gertz

    Actually, that's a pretty weird little site.  And the guy who writes it, Nasif Nahle, seems to be a denizen of a number of contrarian and fringe science web boards.  It seems to be one person's vanity site devoted to his own unique brand of "science."

    Posted by Emily Gertz on 07/19/2009 @ 07:33PM PT

  3. Reply to thread
  4. Brian Haddon

    Ror years I've been supporting many points made about the dangers of Global Warming and came to the conclusion that a comprehensive proposal was what was needed. It has taken a few years but www.esperantoil.org is available for support/comment. When I've finished the Esperanto translation it will be forwarded to the United Nations. I know that the U.N. has flaws but imperialistic promoters will never get the co-opeation needed. I know Esperanto is dismissed by politicians but we should all want to know why they've been blocking it for a century. Why don't they want people to talk to each other. Can it be that they want to monopolise power? We need international co-operation to tackle Global Warming and my proposal is a way of getting it.

    Brian Haddon

    Posted by Brian Haddon on 07/18/2009 @ 09:05AM PT

  5. Not that I agree with everything on the fololowing site but if anyone wants to see what an animation looks like simulated by one of the global climate models here is a link that has the video animations from the CCSM3 model:

    http://www.vets.ucar.edu/vg/IPCC_CCSM3

    This one is a good high resolution

    http://www.vets.ucar.edu/vg/IPCC_CCSM3/IPCC3/IPCC3b-desktop.m4v

     

    Posted by Konstantin K on 07/19/2009 @ 02:21PM PT

  6. Nasif Nahle

    Emily Gertz on 07/19/2009 @ 07:33PM PT

    "Actually, that's a pretty weird little site.  And the guy who writes it, Nasif Nahle, seems to be a denizen of a number of contrarian and fringe science web boards.  It seems to be one person's vanity site devoted to his own unique brand of "science.""

    Actually, I am the Scientific Research Director of Biology Cabinet and have not connections with any other company, industry of government.

    You talk about my vanity and my "own brand of "science"". I would like you sustain this last argument from a scientific viewpoint. Any reader can check out the references at the end of each article or corroborate the knowledge with textbooks and always will find it is science, not my "own brand of science".

    If you have scientific arguments against the articles or a bit of evidence that my work is pseudoscience, go ahead and explain what kind of pseudoscience is there.

    BTW, what you did is called "ad hominem" arguments.

    Posted by Nasif Nahle on 07/19/2009 @ 08:25PM PT

  7. Emily Gertz

    To an extent you are correct that some of my comments were ad hominem, and to that extent I apologize.  If nothing else, I should have realized that someone with your level of activity online would find a reference to his own name pretty quickly, and spared myself the time sink.

    By the same token, I didn't suggest that you had any sort of private backing for your site or work.  BTW, that's what we call a "troll."

     

    Posted by Emily Gertz on 07/20/2009 @ 07:53AM PT

  8. Nasif Nahle

    Apologies accepted.

    You wrote: "It seems to be one person's vanity site devoted to his own unique brand of "science".", you have placed the word science within quotation marks, which would make the reader think that the science contained in BC website is not real science. I would like to elucidate, supported on scientific literature, any question you could possibly have from the content of the articles published there.

    BTW. I don't troll when the dialogue is educated and honest.

    Posted by Nasif Nahle on 07/20/2009 @ 09:59AM PT

  9. Reply to thread
  10. Emily Gertz

    Mr. Nahle, unless I've missed something, on your site you deny the theory of anthropogenic global warming, which is at this point very well accepted among credible researchers.  

    You do so on the basis of a well-discredited notion that the Earth is heating up because the whole solar system is heating up.

    Discover online's astronomy blogger, Phil Plait, offered in 2007 a good, plain language explanation of why this solar system heating idea doesn't hold up on its own merits, as well as in relation to the current global warming on Earth.  

    And from May 2009, here's coverage on Science Daily of the latest research demonstrating that changes in the sun are not causing global warming, done by researchers at Carnegie Mellon University and Dalhousie University.

    In my honest and educated assessment, your site fails to represent accurate or real science as far as climate change is concerned. That is all I intend to get across to readers of this blog.

    Posted by Emily Gertz on 07/20/2009 @ 12:34PM PT

  11. Nasif Nahle

    You say:

    "Mr. Nahle, unless I've missed something, on your site you deny the theory of anthropogenic global warming, which is at this point very well accepted among credible researchers."

    My answer: First of all, anthropogenic global warming is not a theory, but a hypothesis. Secondly, the credibility of a researcher does not mean he/she is right.

    You say:

    "You do so on the basis of a well-discredited notion that the Earth is heating up because the whole solar system is heating up."

    My answer: No, I don't do so on the basis of discredited notions, but on observations of real nature; for example:

    http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/newsroom/20050920a.html

    http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast14jul_2m.htm

    http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1978ApJ...223..589V

    You say:

    "Discover online's astronomy blogger, Phil Plait, offered in 2007 a good, plain language explanation of why this solar system heating idea doesn't hold up on its own merits, as well as in relation to the current global warming on Earth."

    As you can verify, real nature says the oposite:

    http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast15feb_1.htm
    http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/03dec_magneticcracks.htm
    http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast31jan_1.htm

    You say:

    "And from May 2009, here's coverage on Science Daily of the latest research demonstrating that changes in the sun are not causing global warming, done by researchers at Carnegie Mellon University and Dalhousie University."

    Global warming has stopped about ten years ago. The recent cooling of Earth coincides with a deep and prolongued period of low solar activity.

    http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009/01apr_deepsolarminimum.htm

    From the article you quoted:

    "...have developed a model to test a controversial hypothesis that says changes in the sun are causing global warming."

    Well, no scientist in his/her five senses would prefer a model better than the real nature.

    You say:

    "In my honest and educated assessment, your site fails to represent accurate or real science as far as climate change is concerned. That is all I intend to get across to readers of this blog."

    Your last paragraph is addressed to all scientists who have made observations and experimentation of real nature. Unfortunately for this kind of argumentations, all my articles and papers are strongly supported by academic assessments, investigations, etc. For example:

    Broecker, Wallace S. Was the Medieval Warm Period Global? Science. 23 February 2001. Vol. 291. No. 5508, pp. 1497 – 1499.

    Bond, Gerard et al. Persistent Solar Influence on North Atlantic Climate During the Holocene. Science 7 December 2001: Vol. 294. no. 5549, pp. 2130 – 2136.

    Jablonski, David; Erwin, Douglas H.; Lipps, Jere H. Evolutionary Paleobiology. 1996. The University of Chicago; Chicago, Illinois.

    Keenlyside, N. S., Latif, M., Jungclaus, J., Kornblueh, L. and Roeckner, E. Advancing Decadal-Scale Climate Prediction in the North Atlantic Sector. Nature 453, 84-88 (1 May 2008) | doi:10.1038/nature06921; Received 25 June 2007; Accepted 14 March 2008; Corrected on 8 May 2008.

    R. Kozdon, A. Eisenhauer, M. Sarnthein, M. Weinelt, D. Hippler, C. Millo, J. Simstich. Calcium Isotope Fractionation as a new and Sensitive Proxy for the Reconstruction of Sea Surface Temperatures in High Northern Latitudes. 2004. Geophysical Research Abstracts. Vol. 6, 03641.

    Lean, J. 2004. Solar Irradiance Reconstruction. IGBP PAGES/World Data Center for Paleoclimatology Data Contribution Series # 2004-035. NOAA/NGDC Paleoclimatology Program, Boulder CO, USA.

    What I am doing is just to teach real science.

    On the other hand, you have not told me what is wrong in the scientific content of the articles. The databases of TSI are correct, so the databases of change of temperature and the comparisons. The calculations of amplitude of TSI is correct, etc. Would you be so kind as to be a bit more specific?

    Posted by Nasif Nahle on 07/20/2009 @ 01:47PM PT

  12. Reply to thread
  13. Emily Gertz

     

    Would any other members care to take Mr Nahle up on a discussion about these denial tropes of solar forcing, global cooling, how science is done, etc. etc.?

    If you do,  I'll suspend my usual policy of deleting denialist comments from blog posts that are about other things entirely.  Maybe it will pad my stats for a few days. (As long as courtesy is maintained, of course.)  

    Clearly he's tenacious, and a cherry picker, and has a good deal of time to spend, so caveat commenter. 

    Posted by Emily Gertz on 07/20/2009 @ 03:37PM PT

  14. Nasif Nahle

    Dear Emily... It's not a matter of dennialist or not denialists, but of facts. If you wish, drop me a letter and I will send the databases to you, so you can compare, not "cherry picked" unconsequencial data, but data from 1610, and see by yourself that what I manage is real science, not merely my own ideas.

    I'm using real databases; for example, Judith Lean's database on the intensity of solar irradiance since 1610. 400 years is not a cherry picked interval as for saying it is insignificant.

    The lowest intensity from Lean's database, based on sunspots and proxies is 1363.465 W/m^2, while the maximum intensity is 1366.728 W/m^2. The change of the intensity of solar irradiance has been 3.2634 W/m^2. From the last investigation on solar forcing by David H. Douglass, David Clader and Robert S. Knox, of the Departament of Physics and Astronomy of the University of Rochester, the solar sensitiviy of climate is 0.35 K/[W/m^2). Under this SSC, the change of temperature is 1.14 °C, which corresponds exactly to the change of temperature given through the last 400 years.

    I'm sorry if good science motivates you to insult my person, so I have decided not continuing posting here, unless you ask me for any explanation about real science.

    I wish you the best,

    Nasif Nahle

    Posted by Nasif Nahle on 07/20/2009 @ 06:41PM PT

  15. Brooks Nelson

    Nasif Nahle,

    If you are still here, Judith Lean concludes in her paper here.

    http://www.gcrio.org/CONSEQUENCES/winter96/sunclimate.html

    "The most likely cause of climate change in the period since about 1850, based on estimated magnitudes of known perturbations (Fig. 4), is the growing concentration of greenhouse gases: in particular carbon dioxide (CO2), methane (CH4), nitrous oxide (N2O), and the commercially-made compounds of chlorine, fluorine, and carbon called halocarbons.

    The rapid warming since 1970 is several times larger than that expected from any known or suspected effects of the Sun, and may already indicate the growing influence of atmospheric greenhouse gases on the Earth's climate."

    So apparently according to her own words her data does not agree with your conclusions.

    Posted by Brooks Nelson on 07/22/2009 @ 12:57PM PT

  16. Nasif Nahle

    Sorry Brooks, but HER conclusions don't agree with HER data.

    Given that the data coincides with most of databases on TSI, HER conclusions are biased.

    Carbon dioxide has not the thermophysical properties as to cause any global warming or climate change.

    Please, read any book on heat transfer or thermodynamics and you'll find that the carbon dioxide at its current Pp has an emissivity of 0.001.

    On the other hand, Methane is a better conveyor of heat, but it doesn't store heat for prolongued periods.

    The concentration of N2O in the atmosphere is insignificant and cannot be taken into account for the last decade warming which was no more than 0.52 °C.

    Posted by Nasif Nahle on 07/22/2009 @ 05:17PM PT

  17. Brooks Nelson

    Wow, first you use her data to make your case even though her conclusions about her own data are totally the opposite of yours.  In fact claiming her conclusions are biased without anything to back up that claim.  (Since you haven't pointed to the data, or how she has come to a biased conclusion.)

    Now you claim that carbon dioxide doesn't have the properties to cause any global warming?  This is so far outside the realm of believable that it is difficult to see how you could come to such a conclusion, I have seen no scientist or paper anywhere make the claim that CO2 doesn't have the properties to cause any global warming.  Or for N2O for that matter. 

    Posted by Brooks Nelson on 07/23/2009 @ 07:54AM PT

  18. Reply to thread
  19. Emily Gertz

    As a service, here's a sample dissection of how people can throw around complex-sounding phrases that sound good but say next to nothing:

    "Emissivity" is a measure of a material's capacity to radiate absorbed energy, as compared to a theoretical constant.  It's a useful unit of measure primarily when you need to meaningfully compare different substances.  

    Convection is a different quality -- it's about transfer of heat/energy, not radiance.  It's not interchangeable with emissivity, although Nasif uses them interchangeably.

    How well or poorly methane stores heat is something of a non sequitur: in human-propelled global warming, much of the excess heat is being absorbed by the oceans. 

    Now:

    Carbon dioxide is an undisputed heat-trapping gas.  This was known before the end of the 19th century. No one disputes that methane is a greenhouse gas, either.

    The point is not their absolute capacities to radiate, or reflect, energy as compared to other substances.  What we know is that, a) they absorb and reflect heat pretty darn well, and b) there's a lot more of each in the atmosphere today than there ought to be.

    The concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased by nearly 40% since the start of the industrial revolution, from roughly 275 parts per million to 387 ppm today.) Methane has risen by a factor of 3.

    The thermal inertia of the oceans is one reason that even with the most aggressive GHG cuts recommended by scientists, we would still be looking at significant temperature rise in the next century. The oceans have absorbed a lot of the excess heat from the atmosphere, and it will take a long time for them to release it.

    Posted by Emily Gertz on 07/22/2009 @ 07:25PM PT

  20. Nasif Nahle

    I took the responsibility of teaching you a bit of heat transfer, so I will give you an example on the application of the formula derived from Arrhenius' theory for you can see the reality. Let's consider the current concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, i.e. 385 ppmV. The change of temperature caused by this amount of carbon dioxide is:

    ΔT = [5.35 W/m^2] ln [(385 ppmV) ∞ / (280 ppmV)] / 4 (5.6697 x 10^-8 W/m^2 K^2) (280.15 K)^3.

    ΔT = 0.34 K

    And for doubling the concentration:

    ΔT = [5.35 W/m^2] ln [(560 ppmV) ∞ / (280 ppmV)] / 4 (5.6697 x 10^-8 W/m^2 K^2) (280.15 K)^3.

    ΔT = 0.74 K

    If you have any doubts, please read the next books:

    Modest, Michael F. Radiative Heat Transfer-Second Edition. 2003. Elsevier Science, USA and Academic Press, UK.

    Peixoto, José P., Oort, Abraham H. 1992. Physics of Climate. Springer-Verlag New York Inc. New York.

    Pitts, Donald and Sissom, Leighton. Heat Transfer. 1998. McGraw-Hill.

    I hope your deep confusion on heat transfer has been solved.

     

    Posted by Nasif Nahle on 07/22/2009 @ 09:09PM PT

  21. Nasif Nahle

    Dear Emily... Just an observation: I wouldn't open my heart too much to Real Climate.

    The best for you,

    Nasif Nahle

    Posted by Nasif Nahle on 07/22/2009 @ 09:16PM PT

  22. Patrick Di Justo

    Nasif, what are you still doing here?  You said you were going to take your toys and go home.

     

    How can we trust you when you aren't a man of your word?

    Posted by Patrick Di Justo on 07/23/2009 @ 08:31PM PT

  23. Nasif Nahle

    Dear Patrick... I wrote: "I'm sorry if good science motivates you to insult my person, so I have decided not continuing posting here, unless you ask me for any explanation about real science. As you continue having doubts and questioning good science, I continue being here, trying to expose fallacies about climate and science. But it seems my efforts have been useless.

    What you profess is a religion or something which is highly dogmatic, antiscientific, pseudoscientific and, unfortunately, irrational because gives no chance to real science, but to solipsism. Science illiteracy is the main cause of hostile reactions from AGWers against real scientists.

    When a scientist shows the truth behind climate change, the reaction from AGWers is vitriolic, irrational... Like yours, to be clear. BTW, here another paper which will open your readers' eyes:

    http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2009/2008JD011637.shtml

    Hasta la vista,

    Nasif Nahle

    Posted by Nasif Nahle on 07/23/2009 @ 10:53PM PT

  24. Emily Gertz

    What's interesting here is that there's been a remarkable lack of vitriol in response to Nasif's posts.  People have read his arguments, followed some of his links, and come back to point out inconsistencies and mis-interpretations of data and conclusions.

    Nasif responds to these observations, again and again, by saying, effectively, "You're wrong.  These leading climate specialists are wrong."

    Nasif's mind is made up.  But he flips this back around and accuses the people responding to him of being the closed-minded ones.

    There's one notable difference this time around: Nasif links to published research that actually reflects his dismissal of the human causes of global warming.  

    One of the authors, Dr. Carl de Freitas, is pretty well regarded as a scientist in New Zealand, from what I can tell.  

    It also has to be said that once one follows this science for a length of time, his name is one of the few relatively credible ones (I'd say a dozen or less) that pops up all the time, disputing the theory of AGW; while there are dozens that come up just as often supporting it.

    Not to dismiss his work outright, then; just to say he's in an extreme minority.

    On the bright side, it's good to have some informed arguments going on within the climatology field.  That's part of how science becomes refined.  

    More cynically, this sort of thing is kind of the science world's equivalent of office politics. A researcher who could come up with a bombproof argument disproving the theory of AGW would be a celebrity!  So why not give it a good shot?

    Posted by Emily Gertz on 07/24/2009 @ 09:01AM PT

  25. Reply to thread
  26. Nasif Nahle

    An in-depth investigation on the correlation between solar activity and global climate:

    http://www.ucar.edu/news/releases/2009/solarcycle.jsp

    Posted by Nasif Nahle on 07/22/2009 @ 09:50PM PT

  27. Brooks Nelson

    Yes but the article does not conclude that solar activity is the cause of global warming.  Only in solar activities effect on El Nino, La Nina.  Since it does not dispute the currently accepted, peer reviewed research, that global warming is mostly being caused by human addition of GHG to the atmosphere nor does it claim that solar activity accounts for the current increases in world temperatures I don't see its relevance here. 

    Posted by Brooks Nelson on 07/23/2009 @ 05:52AM PT

  28. Nasif Nahle

    Dear Brooks, El Niño and La Niña are the drivers of Earth's climate. The peak in global temperature in 1998 was due to an unusual El Niño event:

    http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/tao/elnino/el-nino-story.html

    Those are the little things the AGWers don't tell you because those little things are good science. From the article at

    http://www.ucar.edu/news/releases/2009/solarcycle.jsp

    we conclude that El Niño and La Niña, the drivers of global climate are influenced by the solar radiation:

    On the other hand, what I say about the negligible thermophysical properties of carbon dioxide is supported by experimentation and observation of many scientists. Again, I reccommend you to read books and scientific magazines, so you can see the reality on this issue. Good science doesn't support the idea of an anthropogenic global warming.

    BTW, there is not global warming nowadays. Instead, the Earth is cooling.

    All the best,

    Nasif Nahle

    Posted by Nasif Nahle on 07/23/2009 @ 09:36AM PT

  29. Nasif Nahle

    I suggest the next readings:

    Mazzarella A. (2008) Solar Forcing of Changes in Atmospheric Circulation, Earth's Rotation and Climate. The Open Atmospheric Science Journal, 2, 181-184.

    Charvatova I. and J. Strestik. (2004). Periodicities between 6 and 16 years in surface air temperature in possible relation to solar inertial motion. J. of Atm. and Solar-Terr. Phys. 66, 219-227.

    http://lheawww.gsfc.nasa.gov/~reames/gsfc3.html

    Nicola Scafetta and Richard Willson. ACRIM-gap and Total Solar Irradiance (TSI) trend issue resolved using a surface magnetic flux TSI proxy model. Geophysical Research Letter (2009).

     

    Posted by Nasif Nahle on 07/23/2009 @ 10:01AM PT

  30. Brooks Nelson

    Nasif, why are you posting articles that do not support your claims?  Neither of your El Nino articles claim that El Nino and La Nina are 'the drivers' of Earth's climate.  And neither claim that the 1998 high temperature came from El Nino either.  And neither claim that the sun through El Nino/La Nina are responsible for the current rise in temperatures.  It is obvious that you have no backing in these areas and refuse to give evidence for these claims, it makes the rest of your arguments far more questionable when you are already shown to willing produce information that does not support what you say it supports. 

    "Those are the little things the AGWers don't tell you because those little things are good science." 

    Now you are the one the using Ad hominem attacks by claiming that 'AGWers don't tell you because those little things are good science'.  You have attacked your opponents argument by attacking the person behind it, if you have evidence for these claims, provide them. Otherwise you are a hypocrite and quite obviously a troll.

    Two more claims made, again, about CO2 as a global warming gas and that the Earth is cooling, two more claims made without a shred of evidence. 

     

    Posted by Brooks Nelson on 07/23/2009 @ 11:25AM PT

  31. Reply to thread
  32. Emily Gertz

    This particular brand of junk science -- appropriating the language and tools of science to obfuscate facts and promote dangerously mistaken ideas  -- really irks me as a journalist. 

    Adopting the trappings of academic research techniques is a pretty common habit among conspiracy theory aficionados.  You see it a lot in alien conspiracy theorists, for instance. 

    The thing is, skilled research is not about piling up the citiations to prove one's preferred version of reality. (The aliens are among us...the Earth is cooling...the Mob killed Kennedy...)

    It's about asking a question.  Then, figuring out how to gather information that might answer it, exercising educated and experienced judgement when considering those facts and data, and then having your work reviewed for gaps by equally knowledgeable peers.  

    I'm done replying to Nasif's lengthy yet curiously non-informative posts, and I'd encourage everyone else to move on as well.  As we sometimes say in online community, "don't feed the trolls."

    Posted by Emily Gertz on 07/23/2009 @ 10:14AM PT

  33. Nasif Nahle

    Dear Emily...

    Ad hominem argumentation and logical phallacies are your specialties, it seems.

    At least you have taken a course of physics during your High School... If not, please read the references, books, articles, etc., and tell me what it is "junk" from all the material I have posted here; define what is wrong and why from a scientific viewpoint. Thank you.

    Nasif Nahle

    Posted by Nasif Nahle on 07/23/2009 @ 10:24AM PT

  34. Brooks Nelson

    Nasif, you are the one claiming that the currently accepted theory, by the peer reviewed science and the scientists who study climate are wrong.  It is on you to prove the theory wrong.

    If you feel Radiative forcing is wrong and only emmissivity is right then you need to prove both.  If you say that Total Solar Irradiance matches exactly to all temperature changes on Earth and accounts for all of it, you need to prove it.  If you say carbon dioxide and N2O have no effect at all on the global warming you need to prove it.  Because right now the science and scientists disagree with you.

    Posted by Brooks Nelson on 07/23/2009 @ 11:10AM PT

  35. Emily Gertz

    Nasif, you flat out reject analysis by very well-regarded, peer-reviewed scientists like Gavin Schmidt (of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies) and Judith Lean (of the US Naval Research Laboratory).

    There's little scientific basis or logical reasoning behind your arguments, as I and others have pointed out.  

    And all the same, your adherence to them is absolute.

    So, examining the structure of your belief system actually becomes relevant to the discussion, rather than an ad hominem argument.  

    That's probably uncomfortable. You'd prefer that I take you on tit for tat on the science, because there's always one more formula that you can post, one more abuse of meaning, another laundry list of research citations that you either don't know how to interpret, or cherry-pick for the parts that fit your world view.  

    Posted by Emily Gertz on 07/23/2009 @ 11:30AM PT

  36. Nasif Nahle

    Dear Brooks... I did it; I mean, I have proven by scientific methodology that the idea, not the theory because it is not a theory, of AGW is wrong.

    I have shown the methods and algorithms and you have not demonstrated what is wrong with them. You are only saying that someone says the contrary, but without scientific basis.

    This is not the way the science works. If you find that any of the assertions is wrong, specify which one is wrong and why. I have made many investigations on the issue and found the correlation that Lean and Schmidt, by obscure objectives, denny when their databases on real phenomena are clearly demonstrating the correlation.

    The paper of Gavin Schmidt has been falsified entirely by solar physicists. Schmidt's paper does not rely on science, but on ideology.

    Regarding peer reviewed papers, another deceiptive argument from AGWers, I have given you many peer reviewed references which demonstrates the correlation between the TSI and the global climate. It is Schmidt alone against hundreds of solar physicists.

    The formulas Emily is referring to are well explained in my articles and the procedures are well known among scientists. My paper on Heat Stored is a peer reviewed paper.

    I'm sorry for you don't understand good science.

     

    Posted by Nasif Nahle on 07/23/2009 @ 05:13PM PT

  37. Nasif Nahle

    Dear Emily... Your arguments are nonsense. Please, demonstrate where and how my algorithms and assessments are wrong. Let the person living in peace.

    Posted by Nasif Nahle on 07/23/2009 @ 05:15PM PT

  38. Reply to thread
  39. Nasif Nahle

    Posted by Nasif Nahle on 07/23/2009 @ 05:20PM PT

  40. Nasif Nahle

    A peer reviewed paper falsifying climate sensitivity:

    http://www.leif.org/EOS/2009GL039628-pip.pdf

    Posted by Nasif Nahle on 07/23/2009 @ 05:29PM PT

  41. Nasif Nahle

    Another peer reviewed paper demonstrating the correlation TSI-global climate written by a prominent Israeli physicist:

    http://www.sciencebits.com/files/articles/CalorimeterFinal.pdf

    Posted by Nasif Nahle on 07/23/2009 @ 05:42PM PT

  42. Nasif Nahle

    Dear Emily... Don't put in my mouth words that I have not said.

    You say: "Nasif responds to these observations, again and again, by saying, effectively, "You're wrong.  These leading climate specialists are wrong."

    Where did I say that? Yours is a vitriolic argument.

    You say: "These leading climate specialists are wrong".

    I didn't say that; however, it's not me who disprove the false science of AGW, but science itself. Have you taken a book of Heat Transfer for checking out if my algorithms are wrong? No, you have not.

    You use dogmatism when writing once and once again "leading" climate specialists. This is not science. Take examples from nature and consider hundreds of leading climate specialists who disprove AGW idea with observations, experimentation, real nature, etc. Please, stop deceiving your readers. I am sure that your readers are not stupid and are seeing how you are trying to deviate the debate into your field.

    I have investigated the correlation between TSI and global climate and found, as many scientists in the world, that the correlation exists. We are on the side of science.

    I have given many references to works of solar physicists who have found the correlation, but you have not read a single work because you have an agenda, the same as Al Gore, James Hansen, etc.

    Read books, read the articles I have referenced here, take the weapons of science and tell me what, how and why my work is wrong:

    Falsification of your hero's, Gavin Schmidt, paper:

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/21/gavin-schmidt-on-solar-trends-and-global-warming/

    A peer reviewed paper falsifying climate sensitivity:

    http://www.leif.org/EOS/2009GL039628-pip.pdf

    Another peer reviewed paper demonstrating the correlation TSI-global climate written by a prominent Israeli physicist:

    http://www.sciencebits.com/files/articles/CalorimeterFinal.pdf

    And tell me SPECIFICALLY, what, how and why my work is wrong? :)

    Posted by Nasif Nahle on 07/24/2009 @ 04:59PM PT

  43. Emily Gertz

    Nasif, I can't see any reason to discuss science further with someone who disputes that carbon dioxide is a potent greenhouse gas. 

    Posted by Emily Gertz on 07/24/2009 @ 05:31PM PT

  44. Nasif Nahle

    Dear Emily... Again, you are trying to disprove good science through denigrating the person. You are not discussing science.

    It's not me who is quarreling over the AGWist flawed thermal properties of carbon dioxide, it is the science itself and honest scientists. The properties of many materials, carbon dioxide among them, have been obtained by observation and experimentation by many physicists through time.

    I recommend you to read scientific books on heat transfer, thermodynamics, etc. There you will find real data on the thermophysical properties of carbon dioxide.

    It's not me who states it, but nature itself; I support my work on scientific research made by hundreds of scientists, like Hottel, Van Ness, Peixoto, and Modest, for example.

    If you have the time, take any book of Heat Transfer Science and answer the next questions:

    1. What the climate sensitivity of CO2 is?

    2. What is the absorptivity-emissivity of carbon dioxide?

    3. Which the Pp of carbon dioxide is?

    4. What is the total emittancy of carbon dioxide?

    5. What is the heat capacity of carbon dioxide?

    6. What is the specific heat capacity of carbon dioxide?

    AGW is not science, but politics.

    BTW, I am an environmentalist, member of many environmentalist societies; I adhere to science and the theory of truth, nonetheless.

    All the best,

    Nasif Nahle

    Posted by Nasif Nahle on 07/24/2009 @ 10:00PM PT

  45. Reply to thread
  46. Nasif Nahle

    Posted by Emily Gertz on 07/19/2009 @ 07:33PM PT

    Actually, that's a pretty weird little site.  And the guy who writes it, Nasif Nahle, seems to be a denizen of a number of contrarian and fringe science web boards.  It seems to be one person's vanity site devoted to his own unique brand of "science."

    In response to this ad hominem arguments, which were what brought me to this blog, I offer you the next article:

    http://www.biocab.org/Amplitude_Solar_Irradiance.html

    You say that I am wrong and Schmidt is right. Take the article and tell me, what in my article is wrong?

    I have posted a link to the falsification of Schmidt's arguments:

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/21/gavin-schmidt-on-solar-trends-and-global-warming/

    However, you continue reciting your mantra... Gavin Schmidt is right... Gavin Schmidt is right.

    Demonstrate that I am wrong in my article on amplitude of TSI and global tropospheric temperature. Point.

    Posted by Nasif Nahle on 07/24/2009 @ 05:06PM PT

  47. Nasif Nahle

    New peer reviewed paper demonstrating that the climate change is natural, not caused by human beings. The solar radiation heats up the sea surface at the SO modifying the effects of ENSO on the Earth's climate:

    McLean, J. D., C. R. de Freitas, and R. M. Carter (2009), Influence of the Southern Oscillation on tropospheric temperature, Journal of Geophysical Research, 114, D14104, doi:10.1029/2008JD011637.

    Posted by Nasif Nahle on 07/24/2009 @ 11:48PM PT

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Emily Gertz

Emily is a journalist and editor covering the environment and science, and has been working in online news, community and content since 1994.

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