Climate Activist to Stephen Colbert: "We're past the point where you can make the math work one bulb
Published August 18, 2009 @ 12:54PM PT
| The Colbert Report | Mon - Thurs 11:30pm / 10:30c | |||
| Bill McKibben | ||||
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Related post: Bill McKibben: 'There finally is climate change activism' and anyone can join
350.org founder and co-director Bill McKibben wisely opted to play it straight last night on The Colbert Report.
Colbert's quips and numbnuts neo-con questions were gentler than usual -- but no matter what, it's a rare guest that can out-funny Stephen.
Under Colbert's purposefully obtuse barrage of questions, McKibben described how during the summer of 2007, the Arctic ice cap shrank so dramatically (to a new known low), that to many researchers, it signaled a dramatic shift in the climate.
The situation moved some scientists from abstractions to alarm. In early 2008, NASA senior climatologist James Hansen and colleagues released a draft paper stating that given the climactic instability already being observed, the world needs to get back to 350 ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere. (We're now at around 390 ppm, and at the anemic levels of current action, we'll be lucky to level out at 490 ppm.)
[[The final version of this paper is available at arXiv.org, an open access repository of scientific research sponsored by Cornell University and the National Science Foundation.]]
350 ppm is a concentration at which the oceans and forests of the globe could probably continue to pull and store enough carbon out of the atmosphere, explained McKibben, to avert the worst impacts of global warming.
Colbert: Can I steal your thunder and start 349.org? Mine's one better.
McKibben: Science isn't like politics, you know. Chemistry and physics don't bargain that way. We know know now what the bottom line for the planet is.
Colbert: Chemistry and physics doesn't bargain?
McKibben: They don't haggle.
Colbert: Well then I refuse to talk to them, until they reconsider their position!
McKibben: And they to you! They're just gonna do what they're gonna do.
And that's why, around the world now, there are people coming together in this 350.org movement, to try to get our leaders to take the steps that we need.
Colbert: Now you're calling for action on October 24. On October 24 you want people to what, screw in florescent bulbs? What do you want people to do?
McKibben: That would be nice. But we're past the point where you can make the math work one bulb at a time.
Colbert: Good, 'cause I hate those things.
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Comments (6)
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Can I please echo the call "make the math work one bulb at a time" The evidence is absolutely irrefutable that we are at the end of the Halocene warming cycle. The earth has been slowly cooling since 6,000 BC, and despite fluctuations of a few degrees, the only way it can go is down. You just have look at average temperature graphs for the last 450,000 years and you get this sinking feeling (a bit like the temperature trend). The expected temperature at the end of this period is 10 C lower that today. Vancouver, Toronto, Londo, Paris, Munich will be buried under 1 kilometer think ice sheet, and our species along with most animals on the planet will perish. But now for the good news. It is well known that the end of the last 5 warm periods was rapid. Temperatures could drop quickly enough in a generation to wipe out millions of people. This one is not so rapid. We may have time to figure out what to do. We have to move entire northern hemisphere populations into warmer areas. This may take decades, but we have to start now. If increased CO2 is, in fact, stalling the ice age, then how long have we got? Unfortunately we will burn all our carbon reserves within 300 years. The cold spell lasts about 60,000, so we're screwed. I'm getting a bit sick of this debate, because no-one is focused on the Global Cooling Issue. An additional few degrees over a period of decades, based on a yet to be unproven mathematical model is one thing, but absolutely undeniable facts that we're going to freeze for 80,000 years is the real issue here! Now I'm prepared to be swayed, so please respond, but in your responce, please refute my facts.
Posted by Roger Grice on 09/06/2009 @ 11:08PM PT
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Roger, you're asking some good questions. Part of your next steps are to sort out what's relevant information to the situation of human-propelled global warming, and what isn't.
Approaching this in geological rather than human time frames obscures the immediate issues. A trend that will take millennia to crest does not have a lot of relevance in an immediate sense - say one to five centuries out -- than trends recorded over the past 10, 20, and 100 years.
And that trend is a net increase in the surface temperature of the Earth, at an unnaturally rapid rate.
And also, what you're terming a "few degrees" (that is, insignificant) is the difference between life and death for many species; the difference between different climate and habitat zones that support very different sorts of ecosystems, as well as human crops and livestock; etc.
The Arctic is more sensitive. Air surface temperatures in the Arctic are projected to rise in excess of 4 deg. C between around 1980 and 2100. That's 4 x 1.8 deg. F...a pretty extreme change in temperature in a very short time, for a region that was stable for millennia, and one that has a big impact on the climate of the northern hemisphere.
In a few decades, I and my fellow New Yorkers are going to be very wistful for the Arctic cold fronts that would sweep southward, and cool off the early summer heat.
Posted by Emily Gertz on 09/07/2009 @ 08:56AM PT
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Emily, I appreciate your comments about sorting out relevant information. Yes the time-frames are long, but the timing is current. Remember that "the crest" occurred a long time ago and we're been getting colder ever since. It may explain why the earth temperature has dropped since 1998 and are level with 1988, while CO2 level have gone up. When I use the phrase " a few degrees" I have to admit, I don't really know what increase I'm talking about. The accepted models are failing empirical tests. The prediction you made about arctic temperatures, is one of these models. So; really no-one is accurately predicting temprature. Why, despite the models and predictions, did the ice cap just get bigger, not smaller. Let's re-look at the models, and get them right. Have a look at the extent of the ice caps 10,000 years ago. Also have a look at the Vostok ice core records to see how quickly the change happens and where we are now in the cycle. Get the extended graphs, or the raw data, if you can. Drops of several degrees can happen in a few decades. I'm either right or wrong; no amount of lobbying will change the process. If I'm wrong and the planet warms there will be massive consequences affecting millions, but life does flourish in the warmth. But if I'm right, think of the consequences. The death of maybe 2 - 3 billion people maybe more, wars like we have never seen before, and the complete loss of our civilisation.
Posted by Roger Grice on 09/07/2009 @ 04:31PM PT
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Roger, the Earth's surface temperature is not getting colder.
There are year-to-year ups and downs, sometimes quite sharp.
But when global temperatures are averaged out over time, the surface temperature has risen by nearly 0.8 deg. C. in the past century. See NASA's findings on this trend, for instance.
In the Arctic, temperatures have already increased around three times as much as in the rest of the Northern Hemisphere, over the past century.
And whatever gains the Arctic ice cap made this year, overall it's decreased in size about 34% since 1979. In short, human influences are pretty much reversing the geological cooling trend.
Posted by Emily Gertz on 09/08/2009 @ 08:05AM PT
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In an example of of "you can use the numbers to show anything" I'll say that the USNew article and Kaufman's report confirms what I'm saying. The earth is cooling. He plots 1,600 years and shows higher temperatures than today. We know it was even warmer before that. The wobbles (as described by Kaufman) have caused the earth to cool by over 2C in the last 6,000 years. These wobbles are powerful and unstoppable cycles, creating massive climate swings. The climate fluctuations over the last thousand years are just ripples on a bigger curve.
Worthy questions:"Where in this cooling cycle are we?" "What happenned at this point in previous cooling cycles?" "What was the earth like 8,000 and 6,000 years ago when it was hotter than now?" "If human influences are reversing the cooling trend, what could happen if we stopped?" "Is there a point past which we can't hold back a minus 12C cooling cycle?"
Posted by Roger Grice on 09/08/2009 @ 11:44PM PT
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All interesting questions, but somewhat abstract relative to current climate change, since a) human activities have changed the climate, so that has to be added as a factor alongside natural cycles and variations; and b) barring some sort of incredible geo-engineering intervention, we'll be seeing rising surface temperatures for well over a century to come, thanks to all the latent heat built up in the oceans.
I'm not fully fluent with the scientific literature, but there may be some answers to your paleo-climate questions already out there. Check out RealClimate.org, which is written by climate scientists.
Kaufman's own conclusion is that human actions have averted any overall cooling trend in coming centuries. So you can use the numbers to show anything (in science this is called "torturing the data"), or you can be intellectually honest.
Good luck with your investigations.
Posted by Emily Gertz on 09/09/2009 @ 08:32AM PT
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